Anabolic Osteoporosis Drugs

Posted by mblatcher @mblatcher, 3 days ago

I am female, 56 and have -3.2 DXA in my spine. My insurance (Aetna) wants me on Prolia. My rheumatologist says I’m way too young and wants me on Evenity. Aetna declined it but have approved Tymlos. Aetna are now pulling out of Florida, so come Jan 1, I will have new insurance (probably Florida Blue). QUESTIONS 1) If I start Tymlos now, should I do the full two years, then try to transition to Evenity? 2) since Evenity does better than Tymlos in clinical trials, should I wait until January and try to get approved for Evenity? 3) I’m about 10 years post menopause. Is HRT an option for me?

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Profile picture for inkstained @inkstained

So sorry you're going through this. I'm in a very similar situation in terms of our ages and osteoporosis profile. My doctor also prescribed Evenity as the very best option for me, but for two months we've been trying unsuccessfully to get the drug approved. My insurance company denied it. We are now in an external appeal process. Perhaps your state has a similar option?

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@inkstained and @mblatcher it is so annoying that insurance companies think they know what’s better for you than your own doctor! I have had the same experience, although with a psoriasis drug - in my case as a Canadian it is the government health insurance thst decides what I can and cannot get!

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Profile picture for gently @gently

hi, rashida.
thanks for the question. You'll see I had some fun with it.
The direct answer to the question is that Tymlos doesn't get rid of the old bone. Your blood takes it away. Fragments of that bone are measured in the serum bone marker CTX.
Tymlos does provide the environment that encourages the natural process of renewal in stimulating the development of more active, importantly here, more vascular bone. Because of this vascularity, neither Tymlos or Forteo have warnings of osteonecrosis.

Tymlos increases the calcium levels in our blood, but just for about 4 hours. It pulls calcium from the digestive track, back from the kidneys and even from the bone. That calcium signals that your body is losing bone. While this signals the need for osteoblasts--the cells that build bone. It is the osteoblasts themselves that signal for the cells that dissolve damaged bone.
Extending the question leads to answers about how Tymlos or Forteo increase the cells that dissolve fissured bone.
https://www.google.com/search?q=rankl+video+osteoporosis&oq=rankl+video+osteoporosis&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRigATIHCAYQIRiPAtIBCDgyOTFqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:5c512cd2,vid:Ndn21jtBjR4,st:0
RANKL Receptor activator of NF-κB (nuclear factor-kappa B) ligand
OPG Osteoprotegerin

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@gently the link you gave just led me to a Google main page, not to the article which you might be sharing.

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Profile picture for gently @gently

@brendammc, Forteo is an analog the first 34 DNA segments of parathyroid hormone. Tymlos is a synthetic analog of the first 34 DNA segments of parathyroid hormone related protein. While Forteo is considered biologic in Europe because it is generated from biologic material before manipulation, Tymlos is entirely synthetic.
Tymlos inserts changes in the last 12 segments of the DNA. The processes involved with each are fascinating, but you are probably asking the difference in effect.
Abaloparatide works by binding to and activating PTHR1. The same binding site as Forteo. This binding site has two receptors RO and RG. Tymlos has more affinity to the RG receptor.
Binding to this receptor causes a more transient effect which increases bone building and decreases bone absorption than more than Forteo. Though, Forteo is seen to have more bone building capacity in the spine and Tymlos better in hips.
Tymlos is in an 80mcg dose, Forteo 20. Tymlos is usually only 36% absorbed, Forteo 95%.
Tymlos is less likely to cause hypercalcemia.
Tymlos contains the preservative phenol. Some people are allergic to the phenol. The preservative in Forteo is metacresol. While metacresol protects against microbial growth, it doesn't protect against the breakdown of the drug itself which is highly sensitive to heat. As such Forteo must be refrigerated.
Evidence indicates that the incidents of side effects are greater with Tymlos.
Tymlos isn't available in Canada. In 2021 a marketing agreement was signed, but nothing followed.

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@gently I’m confused … are you saying Forteo is more effective than Tymlos?, the only downside to Forteo being that it needs to be refrigerated?

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Profile picture for gently @gently

@brendammc, Forteo is an analog the first 34 DNA segments of parathyroid hormone. Tymlos is a synthetic analog of the first 34 DNA segments of parathyroid hormone related protein. While Forteo is considered biologic in Europe because it is generated from biologic material before manipulation, Tymlos is entirely synthetic.
Tymlos inserts changes in the last 12 segments of the DNA. The processes involved with each are fascinating, but you are probably asking the difference in effect.
Abaloparatide works by binding to and activating PTHR1. The same binding site as Forteo. This binding site has two receptors RO and RG. Tymlos has more affinity to the RG receptor.
Binding to this receptor causes a more transient effect which increases bone building and decreases bone absorption than more than Forteo. Though, Forteo is seen to have more bone building capacity in the spine and Tymlos better in hips.
Tymlos is in an 80mcg dose, Forteo 20. Tymlos is usually only 36% absorbed, Forteo 95%.
Tymlos is less likely to cause hypercalcemia.
Tymlos contains the preservative phenol. Some people are allergic to the phenol. The preservative in Forteo is metacresol. While metacresol protects against microbial growth, it doesn't protect against the breakdown of the drug itself which is highly sensitive to heat. As such Forteo must be refrigerated.
Evidence indicates that the incidents of side effects are greater with Tymlos.
Tymlos isn't available in Canada. In 2021 a marketing agreement was signed, but nothing followed.

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@gently thank you for such good information. I just finished reading a study and see that there are CV risks with both. Since I have PCA narrowing moderate to severe, now I’m questioning what’s best.I had read earlier that Evenity was not recommended for that reason but also just read that it wasn’t any worse than the other two.
So much info out there. I’m just trying to find out as much as I can before seeing my specialist next month.
I hope you appreciate how much your info helps.

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rashida, it was supposed to lead you to this video The RANKL/RANK/OPG system in bone
YouTube The Histology Wizard Jan 17, 2022
Which answers what I thought was your question. Then even though it isn't the answer you asked for, I sent it.
Personally, I think Forteo is the better medication. Unreasonably. Except it is more biologic, though there isn't any comfort in what it is extracted from. It is (said to be) more effective in the spine. Spinal fractures are my greatest fear. I'd prefer a hip fracture over a spinal fracture.
But I wasn't trying to say that. I was trying to be neutral.
Tymlos works better in the hips. It is less likely to cause hypercalcemia because of the more transient elevation of calcium. I've read that it is a little less likely to cause nausea and/or dizziness. I do like the downside of refrigeration with Forteo, since that is why it doesn't need phenol as a preservative. I'm happy that Forteo is 20mcg and not 80mcg. Even though (and even since) absorption makes it 28,8 for Tymlos and 19mcg for Forteo.
You really do have to question everything I say. I really am a one trick pony.

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Profile picture for gently @gently

@brendammc, Forteo is an analog the first 34 DNA segments of parathyroid hormone. Tymlos is a synthetic analog of the first 34 DNA segments of parathyroid hormone related protein. While Forteo is considered biologic in Europe because it is generated from biologic material before manipulation, Tymlos is entirely synthetic.
Tymlos inserts changes in the last 12 segments of the DNA. The processes involved with each are fascinating, but you are probably asking the difference in effect.
Abaloparatide works by binding to and activating PTHR1. The same binding site as Forteo. This binding site has two receptors RO and RG. Tymlos has more affinity to the RG receptor.
Binding to this receptor causes a more transient effect which increases bone building and decreases bone absorption than more than Forteo. Though, Forteo is seen to have more bone building capacity in the spine and Tymlos better in hips.
Tymlos is in an 80mcg dose, Forteo 20. Tymlos is usually only 36% absorbed, Forteo 95%.
Tymlos is less likely to cause hypercalcemia.
Tymlos contains the preservative phenol. Some people are allergic to the phenol. The preservative in Forteo is metacresol. While metacresol protects against microbial growth, it doesn't protect against the breakdown of the drug itself which is highly sensitive to heat. As such Forteo must be refrigerated.
Evidence indicates that the incidents of side effects are greater with Tymlos.
Tymlos isn't available in Canada. In 2021 a marketing agreement was signed, but nothing followed.

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@gently can you please provide the link for the evidence of side effects of Tymlos.

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Profile picture for brendammc @brendammc

@gently thank you for such good information. I just finished reading a study and see that there are CV risks with both. Since I have PCA narrowing moderate to severe, now I’m questioning what’s best.I had read earlier that Evenity was not recommended for that reason but also just read that it wasn’t any worse than the other two.
So much info out there. I’m just trying to find out as much as I can before seeing my specialist next month.
I hope you appreciate how much your info helps.

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@brendammc, I've been looking at the issue of cardiac osteoblasts causing calcification. I saw a cardiologist on Tuesday whose first sentence to me was, "I'm surprised your aren't dead."
I remind myself that while we all gaining socialization skills, doctors were studying chemical relationships. While I was deeply amused, I imagine that would be frightening to many. I could hardly speak for laughing.
While neither Evenity or the PTH medications are associated with PCA narrowing, I'm curious if https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38482603/ was your source.
Real world studies are highly prejudiced with a medication whose black box eliminates the patient cohorts who would be at risk. (thanks, njhornung)
If you have a different link. I have a deeper interest after my encounter with the cardiologist.
Tymlos and Forteo are noted to increase cholesterol levels slightly. Irregular heart beats and low blood pressure are usually only sustained during the first several hours after injection.
Our conditions need further research. Thanks for your comment.

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Profile picture for gently @gently

rashida, it was supposed to lead you to this video The RANKL/RANK/OPG system in bone
YouTube The Histology Wizard Jan 17, 2022
Which answers what I thought was your question. Then even though it isn't the answer you asked for, I sent it.
Personally, I think Forteo is the better medication. Unreasonably. Except it is more biologic, though there isn't any comfort in what it is extracted from. It is (said to be) more effective in the spine. Spinal fractures are my greatest fear. I'd prefer a hip fracture over a spinal fracture.
But I wasn't trying to say that. I was trying to be neutral.
Tymlos works better in the hips. It is less likely to cause hypercalcemia because of the more transient elevation of calcium. I've read that it is a little less likely to cause nausea and/or dizziness. I do like the downside of refrigeration with Forteo, since that is why it doesn't need phenol as a preservative. I'm happy that Forteo is 20mcg and not 80mcg. Even though (and even since) absorption makes it 28,8 for Tymlos and 19mcg for Forteo.
You really do have to question everything I say. I really am a one trick pony.

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@gently better a one-trick pony than a Jack of all trades! ☺️

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Profile picture for gently @gently

mblatcher, I'd take Tymlos over Evenity because of the way the medications work. Tymlos removes older damaged bone and restores bone that is active. Romosozumab covers the older fissured bone with a heavier less active bone. This Evenity- bone is thick without the canaliculi that enables fluid flow and mechanical signaling that remodels bone according to the stress you life imposes.
Nothing puts think bone on faster than Evenity. If you wanted to take Evenity in spite of the cardiac risks,despite the type of bone it lays down, it would be better to had a stable base of Tymlos-bone first.
Evenity does better than Tymlos only in the heaviness and speed of bone acquisition. I'd take Tymlos for two years and by then we'll know more about a third year of Tymlos and the durability of Evenity-bone as well as the cardiac safety. I wouldn't want to wait and I don't think Evenity is worth waiting for. With Tymlos you won't worry about osteonecrosis or atypical femur fracture. I haven't taken either Tymlos, Evenity or even Prolia.
And I don't have a medical background. Best wishes on your choice.
Saved by the insurance, I'd say.

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@gently Did you get side effects taking Tymlos please

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Profile picture for mblatcher @mblatcher

@JustinMcClanahan
I have worked with my rheumatologist to file a total of 4 appeals with Aetna. Each time, the answer was the same- “Evenity cannot be approved because you have not trialed and failed to respond to Prolia”. Very disappointing to say the least. I got my diagnosis on Dec 30 2024. Here I am in October without having made any progress. My rheumatologist was trained by one of the top Osteoporosis docs in the country and I place a lot of trust in her. Unfortunately, she has now left the practice. I will meet her replacement once I start the Tymlos. But who knows who will be in-network come January when my new insurance will kick in. So I might be back to the drawing board. The good news is that whatever insurance I can afford (I’m self insured) should cover Tymlos if I have already begun taking it. I just need to do the training for self-injection, so I should begin pretty soon. The last 10 months have been a roller coaster to say the least!

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@mblatcher
My experience is you start with Evenity then switch to Prolia to keep your gains.
I took Evenity, then had a Reclast infusion after a year.
Unfortunately I had lots of side effects (joint pain, rash, brain fog) so I only did one Reclast infusion. So far I have held at mild osteoporosis and no more compression fractures.
(I had a mild & moderate compression fx while snow skiing in 2021.

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