PSA/MRI not too bad, Biopsy not too good. What??

Posted by jeff1963 @jeff1963, 5 days ago

61 years old, both brothers have had Pca, one died from it, other RARP and no issues since

PSA over last 4 years, from 1.8 to 5.7
Last PSA two weeks ago 2.4 (Mayo Rochester)

Transrectal Biopsy 2021, 1 out of 12 positive, Right Base Lateral: 3+3, 2% of sample positive, Oncotype DX (biomarker) very unlikely to spread
AS for 4 years
MRI 2024 no tumors, nothing at all, clean MRI totally

June 2025 - first visit to Mayo (Jax)
MRI 2025 (Mayo Jax) - one tumor 1cm/0.21cc Right Posterior Lateral, PIRADS 3, no spreading at all

Tranperineal Biopsy one week ago (Mayo Rochester), 9 are negative, 6 are positive:
Right Posterior Lateral Apex: 3+3, tumor is 30% of specimen
Right Posterior Lateral Base: 3+3, tumor is 20% of specimen
Left Anterior Horn: 3+3, tumor is 60% of specimen
Left Anterior Apex: 3+3, tumor is 5% of specimen
Left Anterior Medial: 3+4, % of pattern 4 is less than 10%, "tumor involves 30% of overall specimen (1 of 2 cores). Most affected core is involved by tumor over 60% of its length"
Right Posterior Lateral: 3+4, % of pattern 4 is less than 10%, "tumor involves 20% of overall specimen (3 of 3 cores). Most affected core involved by tumor over 40% of its length"
For the 3+4s they did multiple samples, for rest one core sample only
Pathology report does not mention anything like criboform or IDC (not sure if this is because they found none or because that level of detail is not included in my report)

Have not had Decipher, have not had PSMA PET, no treatment at all up to this point.

Meet with Mayo Rochester NP next week to review results.

Not sure what to make of this. Seems like MRI missed some tumor(s)? Maybe was MRI also wrong when it found no spreading?

Not sure of next steps. Any advice? Thanks in advance!

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

Cribiform and IDC would have been shown on the report.

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Profile picture for bearcat998 @bearcat998

Cribiform and IDC would have been shown on the report.

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That's good info, thank you!

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Profile picture for icorps @icorps

On the cribriform and ultraductal issue you can ask your attending doc outright. My guess is they would have said something if they saw any.

It seems to me that you may want to really consider getting the thing out ASAP.

Once it's in a pathologist's hands you'll get the real skinny. And now with Decipher they can use the tissue to come up with a good prognosis on aggressiveness etc. Further if they get in early enuff they can spare one or both of your erectile function nerve bundles.

The operation is quick and you're on your feet in a day or two. Bowel movements can be agony for awhile tho.

If you just go back and read the litany of all the rigormoreroll you've been thru to date in having it stalk you and w your family history, I'd just get it out.
Then you'll know how much
further or little treatment you'll need in the future.

If it's slipped out of the prostate capsul, you'll find that out. And that's not a death sentence. They can do a lot to cure even then.

But they have to first know and a prostatectomy in my opinion gives the most info..

Recall an adage constantly ringing in my ears as an Infantry 2nd Lieutenant going thru Infantry Officers Basic at Ft Benning enroute to Nam-

"Lieutenant-
Always bring me the bad news first.
Good news takes care of itself."

Has your doc talked to you about the possibility of a cure with a prostatectomy?

Good luck!!

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Meet with my Mayo Nurse Practitioner a week from today to discuss next steps. Without knowing what they will recommend, a RARP is what I have in mind. Not what I wanted, not what I expected, but seems like best option. Thanks for advice, much appreciated!

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

Actually, the PSE test could be more important than a decipher test. The PSE test Is 94% accurate in telling you whether or not you do have prostate cancer. You have had a lot of biopsies, but it’s designed to prevent biopsies if it doesn’t find prostate cancer.

If it does find it, then treatment is important.

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Huh? Doesn't this guy already have histologically proven cancer? A low-grade, indolent form for sure, but cancer nonetheless. He isn't concerned about whether or not it's there. His concern is whether it should be treated or watched.

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Profile picture for trusam1 @trusam1

Huh? Doesn't this guy already have histologically proven cancer? A low-grade, indolent form for sure, but cancer nonetheless. He isn't concerned about whether or not it's there. His concern is whether it should be treated or watched.

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The thing is, they are relying on the fact that The Gleason is so low that maybe they can keep going without doing anything. The PSE test could quash that expectation. Wouldn’t hurt to have a decipher test as well.

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Profile picture for jeff1963 @jeff1963

great info, thank you! You were diagnosed at about the same age as I was. 21 years of AS is amazingly great, I had hoped to get many more years myself.

It will be interesting to see what next steps are recommended by my Mayo Team, but seems like a PSMA would make sense for me.

Glad you have done well all these years and hoping your Decipher results are good news. Once you get the Decipher results, please share here if you would like.

Thanks, again!

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If you are interested in AS for 3+4 attached is the first page of a recent journal article discussing pertinent studies. The full article can be readily obtained on the internet at no cost. You tube contains many excellent videos by Dr. Mark Scholz. It takes a lot of time and research to figure out all this stuff.

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Profile picture for phildphs @phildphs

If you are interested in AS for 3+4 attached is the first page of a recent journal article discussing pertinent studies. The full article can be readily obtained on the internet at no cost. You tube contains many excellent videos by Dr. Mark Scholz. It takes a lot of time and research to figure out all this stuff.

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Thank you for this, I will watch the videos and read the article, much appreciated! It sure does take a lot of time to figure this out, it can be overwhelming.

Wish I would have known about this discussion group 4 years ago, so many great people with great information.

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

The thing is, they are relying on the fact that The Gleason is so low that maybe they can keep going without doing anything. The PSE test could quash that expectation. Wouldn’t hurt to have a decipher test as well.

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Maybe I am misunderstanding the PSE. I thought it combined PSA level and a PC epigenetic marker to improve the likelihood that a "positive" test is actually associated with the presence of cancer. (94 vs 50 % accuracy?) Does it actually provide information about the severity/aggressiveness of the predicted cancer? I thought its main purpose was to help men decide whether or not to have a biopsy for the first time. If someone already knows cancer is present, from a prior biopsy, how does the PSE help. None of the articles I have access to explain this.

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Profile picture for trusam1 @trusam1

Maybe I am misunderstanding the PSE. I thought it combined PSA level and a PC epigenetic marker to improve the likelihood that a "positive" test is actually associated with the presence of cancer. (94 vs 50 % accuracy?) Does it actually provide information about the severity/aggressiveness of the predicted cancer? I thought its main purpose was to help men decide whether or not to have a biopsy for the first time. If someone already knows cancer is present, from a prior biopsy, how does the PSE help. None of the articles I have access to explain this.

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The thing is some people with the 3+4 may not believe they really have cancer and the PSA test can eliminate that as a question.

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