Brachytherapy or Prostatectomy? How did you choose?

Posted by kazszs @kazszs, Jul 2 7:09am

I am 65 yrs old and have just been diagnosed with Prostate cancer -
3+5 Gleason count 8 and No spread thru PetScan.
Options for Radical Prostatecomy or Brachy Therapy followed by Radiotion and 18 months of Hormonal Therapy. I have discussed each treatment with my Urologist as well as Oncologist, both have complications but the same cure rate..
any advice on guiding me to an informed decision? thank you!

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

I am puzzled by your comments

“ The first of several in the pipeline is PLUVICTO (PSMA Lutetium 177). (It is a 'first cousin of the substance in a PSMA PET-CT scan) Some well off individuals are resorting to medical tourism, going to Germany, India etc. to get the infusions of PLUVICTO. ”

Pluvicto has been available in the United States for years and is FDA approved and paid for by insurance. Actinium-225 Is what people are going over to Europe to get infusions of since it is not approved in the United States. I know somebody that actually went to Austria to have it done.

“Adding neoadjuvant ADT (androgen deprivation therapy) increases that sensitivity by 67%, (There is some thought that adding Nubeqa brings the sensitivity to 100% of the baseline?)“

I have looked into this and find that the percentage vary a lot Based on the case. Where did you get the information about ADT increasing sensitivity by 67%? I’d like to be able to quote that information and also the addition of Nubeqa.

What I have read is this

“ In summary, ADT enhances the effectiveness of radiation therapy however, the exact magnitude of the improvement varies depending on the specific clinical scenario.”

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I may have misled people into thinking Pluvicto was only available overseas for rich folks. My intention was to say it is available overseas for those who do not meet the criteria for insurance payment, The requirement for prior chemo was lifted for castration resistance this Spring. I assume that it will devolve down to hormone sensitive ...etc. In New Delhi a very modern hospital is offering Pluvicto for USD 47K for the series. In principle the cancer within the capsule without metastases should be as sensitive to ligand radiotherapy if not more so?

With regard to an additive benefit of Nubeqa to ADT prior
to radiotherapy I cannot find the notice. There is however
a benefit apparently for a planned prostatectomy (RP).

Bayer just did make an announcement that the FDA had approved 03 June that Nubeqa has been approved for hormone sensitive metastatic disease.
https://www.bayer.com/en/us/news-stories/metastatic-castration-sensitive-prostate-cancer

REPLY

Instead of starting a new discussion, I hope it's okay to piggyback on this one since my circumstance is similar, just not restricted to brachy as the radiation format.
I just received biopsy results and spoke to my urologist three days ago, who recommends either surgery or radiation. I'm a bit agog in deciding which to favor.
I'm 71, in pretty good shape and health apart from dealing with chronic fatigue since my first(!) Covid-19 infection about a year ago (AKA Long Covid).

This spring, after a blood test showing 7.2 ng/mL level of PSH, I was referred to a urologist, who found a nodule, and referred me to imaging, for a contrast MRI.
It revealed a .5ml lesion abutting the capsule, but apparently fully contained therein.
I subsequently underwent a biopsy, and here are the results:
(They are all Adenocarcinoma)
----------------------------------------------
C: R3 right lateral mid: Gleason pattern 3 + 5 (5%) =8, grade group 4, 5.5 mm in 13.5 mm core, 40% of tissue.

D: R4 right medial mid: Gleason pattern 3+3=6, grade group 1, discontinuous 0.4 mm and 0.3 mm foci in 14 mm core, 5% of tissue.

I: L3 left lateral mid: Gleason pattern 3 + 4 (20%) =7, grade group 2, 2 mm in 10 mm core, 20% of tissue.

K: L5 left apex lateral: Gleason pattern 3 + 4 (20%) =7, grade group 2, discontinuous 0.4 mm and 0.2 mm foci in 9 mm core, 5% of tissue.
-Perineural invasion present.

M: Target 1,:, Gleason pattern 3 + 5 (5%) =8, grade group 4, involving 4 of 5 cores, 11 mm in 43 mm core, 25% of tissue.
------------------------------------
I have to admit I'm a bit confused about the final "M: Target 1" as I'm uncertain just where that was from, or if it's a generalization of the bunch. Forgot to ask my urologist about that.
He seemed to discount the Perineural invasion as insignificant.
He did say that the cancer does appear to be contained just within the organ, but that it is somewhat aggressive, and needs to be dealt with "soon", but he was agnostic about whether surgery or radiation would be best. I asked about focal radiation, but apparently the cancer is a bit too dispersed for that to be effective. He also discounted brachytherapy as appropriate.

I'm dealing with the local University of California health system here, which I understand is well-regarded, and he has referred me to a surgeon there (turns out to be the same one who did the biopsy, coincidentally), as well as their hospital in La Jolla that is equipped for radiation therapy.

I'm nervous about the possibly greater chances of urinary and ED problems (I have a wife) with surgery, but the higher chance of bowel problems with radiation certainly gives me pause, along with its side effect of (more, in my case) fatigue.
I think I'm leaning towards the surgery option--they do have the amazing DaVinci (or was it Cuisinart..?) robotic thingie--and the finality of it appeals, but, again, I'm uncertain, and would love to hear from some of you knowledgeable and experienced fellows for your perspectives.
Thanks so much!

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Reply To: @sandguy

A target would normally be where an MRI showed that there was a nodule.

It would mean that they took five cores of that area and that Four of them had some (25%) cancer. Only 5% Gleason 5 however. Other spot had higher 40% cancer but again only 5% Gleason 5.

This does sound quite treatable. Surgery does have a pretty good chance of causing ED. If they can spare the nerves, then it makes it more likely would be able to have erection. It may take a while, Though some people recover quickly.

I was just at a seminar a few days ago, where they talked about urinary incontinence after surgery and they said it could take up to a year in some cases for full recovery. If it’s not recovered in a year, he said it is not going to come back and you need something like the AUS. I know in my case I really didn’t have any incontinence issues after surgery. The results vary considerably, if you do a search on this forum for incontinence you should find many discussions and many different results. Doing kegels before surgery and then after can really help with incontinence.

If you decide on radiation and have a spacer put in to protect the rectum from damage. Some doctors Don’t like it. There are three different brands SpaceOAR, Barrigel, or BioProtect.

As far as whether you should have surgery or radiation, The results are about the same. Some people have to have radiation after surgery because it reoccurs . You could get a Decipher test to see if there is a high likelihood of reoccurrence. Ask your doctor about it.

REPLY
Profile picture for sanDGuy @sandguy

Instead of starting a new discussion, I hope it's okay to piggyback on this one since my circumstance is similar, just not restricted to brachy as the radiation format.
I just received biopsy results and spoke to my urologist three days ago, who recommends either surgery or radiation. I'm a bit agog in deciding which to favor.
I'm 71, in pretty good shape and health apart from dealing with chronic fatigue since my first(!) Covid-19 infection about a year ago (AKA Long Covid).

This spring, after a blood test showing 7.2 ng/mL level of PSH, I was referred to a urologist, who found a nodule, and referred me to imaging, for a contrast MRI.
It revealed a .5ml lesion abutting the capsule, but apparently fully contained therein.
I subsequently underwent a biopsy, and here are the results:
(They are all Adenocarcinoma)
----------------------------------------------
C: R3 right lateral mid: Gleason pattern 3 + 5 (5%) =8, grade group 4, 5.5 mm in 13.5 mm core, 40% of tissue.

D: R4 right medial mid: Gleason pattern 3+3=6, grade group 1, discontinuous 0.4 mm and 0.3 mm foci in 14 mm core, 5% of tissue.

I: L3 left lateral mid: Gleason pattern 3 + 4 (20%) =7, grade group 2, 2 mm in 10 mm core, 20% of tissue.

K: L5 left apex lateral: Gleason pattern 3 + 4 (20%) =7, grade group 2, discontinuous 0.4 mm and 0.2 mm foci in 9 mm core, 5% of tissue.
-Perineural invasion present.

M: Target 1,:, Gleason pattern 3 + 5 (5%) =8, grade group 4, involving 4 of 5 cores, 11 mm in 43 mm core, 25% of tissue.
------------------------------------
I have to admit I'm a bit confused about the final "M: Target 1" as I'm uncertain just where that was from, or if it's a generalization of the bunch. Forgot to ask my urologist about that.
He seemed to discount the Perineural invasion as insignificant.
He did say that the cancer does appear to be contained just within the organ, but that it is somewhat aggressive, and needs to be dealt with "soon", but he was agnostic about whether surgery or radiation would be best. I asked about focal radiation, but apparently the cancer is a bit too dispersed for that to be effective. He also discounted brachytherapy as appropriate.

I'm dealing with the local University of California health system here, which I understand is well-regarded, and he has referred me to a surgeon there (turns out to be the same one who did the biopsy, coincidentally), as well as their hospital in La Jolla that is equipped for radiation therapy.

I'm nervous about the possibly greater chances of urinary and ED problems (I have a wife) with surgery, but the higher chance of bowel problems with radiation certainly gives me pause, along with its side effect of (more, in my case) fatigue.
I think I'm leaning towards the surgery option--they do have the amazing DaVinci (or was it Cuisinart..?) robotic thingie--and the finality of it appeals, but, again, I'm uncertain, and would love to hear from some of you knowledgeable and experienced fellows for your perspectives.
Thanks so much!

Jump to this post

It’s really a roll of the dice and your personal preference. Just to be clear, there is nothing FINAL about surgery - roughly 30% require retreatment and the daVinci robot is amazing - until it’s used on YOU. A little better than open surgery in very skilled hands but just as invasive. If the surgeon manages to get every last cell, you’re cured…
Radiation for a 71 yr old is a pretty good bet as well. Side effects vary from none to pretty intense, bladder and bowel-wise. So somewhere in the middle is very tolerable.
With a Gleason8 abutting the capsule I am surprised there’s no mention of ADT with radiation (either SBRT or IMRT) since an 8 makes your cancer aggressive even without a Decipher score.
Although you need to act somewhat quickly on this ( like not this week, but not Christmas either!) you need to get more info; I would get an opinion from a radiology oncologist (or two) - someone who does actual treatment, not your urologist telling you about it.
In either case you have a good chance for successful treatment. Best,
Phil

REPLY

I had few if any side effects from Brachytherapy. ADT on the other hand was pure HELL.

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