Better to be in some pain or better to up the dose of prednisone?

Posted by rnm @rnm, Apr 7 8:58am

Thank you for all of the information and guidance provided by members of this group. It has been very helpful. I have been tapering down on the prednisone for nearly two months. There are times that I find the pain manageable and I can function, not optimally, but I function. My question is, is it better to tough it out with the pain as along as I can function, or would it be better to up my dosage, even marginally, and feel somewhat better? After all I've read from members of this group and from other sources, I am well aware of the very nasty side effects of this drug. The other question I have is this, if Kevzara or other biologics can treat PMR without the nasty side effects of Prednisone, why isn't that prescribed first? Again, thank you for all of your help.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR) Support Group.

@art43

Unless it is determined that your PMR is in remission (typically determined by/confirmed with SED/CRP testing), continuing to taper is almost guaranteed to result in ongoing PMR pain.
One usually stays on a dose that completely controls PMR pain until the inflammatory tests return to normal levels. For you, that dose might have been 10, and you might have started tapering prematurely, before your PMR was in remission. Or, in your haste to get off of prednisone, you tapered too quickly. Or, you are tapering without waiting to determine if hydroxy is going to work. Below 10, tapering at 1 per month seems to work for most folks. Below5, at 0.5 per month. But all that presumes that your PMR is in remission.
Good luck.

Jump to this post

My rheumy wants me off prednisone (me too) so has prescribed tapering from 10mg, 1mg every 2 weeks and before that from 15mg, 2.5mg every 2 weeks. I had relief at 12.5 and some at 10mg.
She suggested I go on leflunomide and I declined that option because of side effects and bc I read it could take up to 2 years to leave my system. After reading others who had relief with hydroxychloroquine, I asked to try that which I’m presently on but so far no results.
I can safely say, I’m not in remission but still following docs orders with tapering although I may slow down the tapering to 1se a month. Dunno. I did read when someone went off prednisone, they went on ibuprofen with some relief. Before I was diagnosed (it took a few months to get an appointment), I was getting some relief on ibuprofen, that wasn’t much different than being on prednisone. Which is the worst of the 2 evils?

REPLY
@ftbraggal

Wow......the weather is something I've thought caused a lot of my bad days! I'm not seeing my rheumatologist till end of May, I'm taking it a day at a time.....seeing how I feel at 10 day on 15mg of prednisone......my pain level, without Tylenol or just 1 a day. Then will try to start cutting back! I had a day Tuesday.....so not sure how it will go!

Do you know what your CRP level was on your blood work? My last flare in Oct, it came down fairly fast.....2-3 weeks. But I'm don't sure this time......this was like hitting a brick wall!

Jump to this post

My CRP on 11/27 was 13 and I was on 15mg prednisone at the time
CRP on 1/14 was 6 and I was on 10mg prednisone
I originally started on 15 mg (Oct 31, 2014) but was upped to 20mg after 5 days of no significant improvement, then came down again 11/20 to 15mg and then 2.5mg every 2 weeks-to 12.5; 10mg, 7.5 up to 10mg, 7.5, 10, 9, 8, 9, 8, 7, 6, now on 5mg. Rheumy didn’t do blood work at my last visit which I should have asked for. Next time.
It’s feels like a roller coaster ride.

REPLY
@debbiebas216

My rheumy wants me off prednisone (me too) so has prescribed tapering from 10mg, 1mg every 2 weeks and before that from 15mg, 2.5mg every 2 weeks. I had relief at 12.5 and some at 10mg.
She suggested I go on leflunomide and I declined that option because of side effects and bc I read it could take up to 2 years to leave my system. After reading others who had relief with hydroxychloroquine, I asked to try that which I’m presently on but so far no results.
I can safely say, I’m not in remission but still following docs orders with tapering although I may slow down the tapering to 1se a month. Dunno. I did read when someone went off prednisone, they went on ibuprofen with some relief. Before I was diagnosed (it took a few months to get an appointment), I was getting some relief on ibuprofen, that wasn’t much different than being on prednisone. Which is the worst of the 2 evils?

Jump to this post

I have memories of leflunomide and it wasn't that bad. I actually reduced my Prednisone dose quite a bit. Unfortunately, I had recurring infections when I was on Prednisone + Leflunomide.

My rhematologist didn't blame leflunomide only for the infections. She said the infections were caused by "too much immunosuppression." She was more diplomatic about what medication caused the infections. She said Prednisone shared some of the blame too.

Prednisone doesn't stay in your system very long but depending on how long your adrenals have been suppressed it can take a long time to get off Prednisone.

Only leflunomide was stopped because prednisone couldn't be stopped abruptly because my adrenals wouldn't recover anytime soon. My rheumatologist did confirm leflunomide would stay in my system for a long time after she stopped it. I had to be very careful about acquiring another infection for about a year after the antibiotics were stopped.

REPLY
@debbiebas216

Good question. I’m asking myself the same thing. I’m in pain every morning but not in the afternoon or evening. I’m presently on 5mg prednisone and want off asap. I started hydroxy… but hasn’t kicked in yet and it’s been about 9 days. I plan on tapering 1mg every 2 weeks and see how that goes. May try 5 one day and 4 the next but haven’t had relief since I was on 10mg but will not go up. It that a mistake? I don’t know. I’m finding the weather has an effect-rainy days (lower barometric pressure) take a toll. Good luck and I hope you can find an answer. If I figure it out, I’ll share.

Jump to this post

I suggest only a half mg/month. If you still have PMR and you drop too fast you risk the possibility of a major flare. It depends how your flares present. Mine I can barely get out of a chair. I started KEVZARA in December.

REPLY
@grumpa

I suggest only a half mg/month. If you still have PMR and you drop too fast you risk the possibility of a major flare. It depends how your flares present. Mine I can barely get out of a chair. I started KEVZARA in December.

Jump to this post

The same thing applies to adrenal insufficiency from long term prednisone use. It wasn't the pain so much as the overwhelming fatigue. Anything remotely strenuous would completely wipe me out.

Kevzara won't suppress your adrenal function like prednisone does. It will still take some time for your adrenals to recover. The reason for a slow taper is more about adrenal function. Poor adrenal function and PMR flares felt basically the same. For me, it was the combination of PMR and adrenal suppression that explained why I could not taper off prednisone very quickly,

I was on Actemra but I assume Kevzara works basically the same way.

REPLY
@dadcue

I have memories of leflunomide and it wasn't that bad. I actually reduced my Prednisone dose quite a bit. Unfortunately, I had recurring infections when I was on Prednisone + Leflunomide.

My rhematologist didn't blame leflunomide only for the infections. She said the infections were caused by "too much immunosuppression." She was more diplomatic about what medication caused the infections. She said Prednisone shared some of the blame too.

Prednisone doesn't stay in your system very long but depending on how long your adrenals have been suppressed it can take a long time to get off Prednisone.

Only leflunomide was stopped because prednisone couldn't be stopped abruptly because my adrenals wouldn't recover anytime soon. My rheumatologist did confirm leflunomide would stay in my system for a long time after she stopped it. I had to be very careful about acquiring another infection for about a year after the antibiotics were stopped.

Jump to this post

Thank you for sharing. I hope you’re doing fine now.

REPLY
@dadcue

The same thing applies to adrenal insufficiency from long term prednisone use. It wasn't the pain so much as the overwhelming fatigue. Anything remotely strenuous would completely wipe me out.

Kevzara won't suppress your adrenal function like prednisone does. It will still take some time for your adrenals to recover. The reason for a slow taper is more about adrenal function. Poor adrenal function and PMR flares felt basically the same. For me, it was the combination of PMR and adrenal suppression that explained why I could not taper off prednisone very quickly,

I was on Actemra but I assume Kevzara works basically the same way.

Jump to this post

I’m very confused. I called another rheumatologist office for a second opinion. The first appointment is July 2. Ugh. I’m calling periodically to see if any appointments open up sooner.

REPLY

It took me ten months to get my blood markers into the normal range. I am on a slow taper and the last week at 3mg I have had a lot of stiffness in my thighs which has responded well to stretching and exercise. Normal strategies for stiff muscles. It is reminiscent of PMR but I think it may just be my body readjusting to changes in cortisol production. I still have a stiffness in my fingers but it is not always the same fingers. I wiggle and stretch my fingers a lot hoping that motion will smooth things out. All in all I am feeling a lot better and stronger and will continue with my slow taper of 1mg per month.

REPLY
@art43

Unless it is determined that your PMR is in remission (typically determined by/confirmed with SED/CRP testing), continuing to taper is almost guaranteed to result in ongoing PMR pain.
One usually stays on a dose that completely controls PMR pain until the inflammatory tests return to normal levels. For you, that dose might have been 10, and you might have started tapering prematurely, before your PMR was in remission. Or, in your haste to get off of prednisone, you tapered too quickly. Or, you are tapering without waiting to determine if hydroxy is going to work. Below 10, tapering at 1 per month seems to work for most folks. Below5, at 0.5 per month. But all that presumes that your PMR is in remission.
Good luck.

Jump to this post

Unfortunately even this fairly safe approach can often fail as we have no way of truly measuring whether remission is occurring. Even if the CRP/ESR drop back to normal (as mine have been on many occasions) it can only mean that the current dose of steroids is the correct dose to control the current level of PMR inflammation. As soon as you drop by even 0.5 mg, the symptoms will return if the level of PMR inflammation then exceeds the steroid dose.

REPLY
@gmdb

Unfortunately even this fairly safe approach can often fail as we have no way of truly measuring whether remission is occurring. Even if the CRP/ESR drop back to normal (as mine have been on many occasions) it can only mean that the current dose of steroids is the correct dose to control the current level of PMR inflammation. As soon as you drop by even 0.5 mg, the symptoms will return if the level of PMR inflammation then exceeds the steroid dose.

Jump to this post

So, let’s say “remission” is the situation where you can drop a level without experiencing PMR pain. Perhaps “control” would be a better term. My rheumy used “remission” after I went from 30 to 10 over a 3-month period while experiencing zero pain. My inflammatory markets were then normal. I then went from 10 to 5 at 1 per month with occasional transient non-PMR pains, and then to zero at 0.5 per month, again with only non-PMR issues.

REPLY
Please sign in or register to post a reply.