If you have tapering problems below 5 mg this might explain why.

Posted by Mike @dadcue, Sep 16, 2024

https://www.nadf.us/secondary-adrenal-insufficiency.html
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The following explains the challenges we need to overcome. I believe this is exactly what happened to me.

"The most difficult issue is that symptoms of adrenal insufficiency will be present during the tapering phase, because low levels of cortisol are the only trigger to the pituitary to stimulate the return of ACTH production and the restoration of normal pituitary-adrenal responsiveness.

The longer high dose steroids were given for a disease like asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, polymyalgia rheumatica or inflammatory bowel disease, the more likely that an individual will suffer from adrenal insufficiency symptoms on withdrawal of the steroids.

In addition, tapering off the steroids may cause a relapse of the disease that had been treated, causing a combination of disease symptoms overlapping with adrenal insufficiency symptoms. That is why it is very common for steroid tapers to be aborted, with a temporary return to therapeutic doses of glucocorticoids, followed by a slow attempt at tapering if the primary disease is in remission. "

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR) Support Group.

Profile picture for pmrsuzie @pmrsuzie

Well, 2 years ago I started having what has been diagnosed as Meniere's/ vestibular migraine episodes. They are debilitating. Been in the ER twice. I have not been able to pinpoint all the triggers. Am not risking having one of these episodes if it can be avoided.

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I understand. Meniere's/ vestibular migraine episodes are no fun.

I can relate to food triggers because of trigeminal neuralgia. I had to sneak food into my mouth. Sometimes I would get an electric shock just opening my mouth before putting any food into my mouth. I would be unable to eat too much anything for days at a time when those attacks were frequent.
https://www.wkhs.com/health-resources/wk-health-library/medical-procedures-tests-care-and-management/a-z/avoiding-trigeminal-neuralgia-triggers

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I am learning so much from this blog. I will be starting my 4th month on prednisone tapering from 15 to 10 to 9 and tomorrow to 8. My problem is that I am diabetic and I need very low carb to keep from spiking. In a month I will have my A1C checked but for now my rheumatologist suggests I stay on the prednisone tapering 1 mg each month. I have no PMR symptoms since starting prednisone. Has anyone with type 2 diabetes experienced better glucose control as they taper off the prednisone? That is what I am hoping will happen.

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Profile picture for pmrsuzie @pmrsuzie

After verifying that I could get 2.5 mg prednisone tablets at the pharmacy, I DID approach my rheumatologist about half mg tapering at my visit last week. I got the same reply as before, " I don't do that". His reasoning is that alternating whole mg amounts every other day is the same thing. I am now at 4 mg and doing ok. I'm going to stay at 4mg until I start PT in 2 weeks before attempting to alternate 4mg with 3 mg. ( not getting 2.5 mg tablets).
I had a visit with a 2nd rheumatologist in Jan who ordered the P T.
The endocrinologist I had been seeing has retired so I am exploring that option to address cortisol issues.

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My rheumatologist does not want to do a cortisol test, is this unususal?
Trying to get into an endocrinologist.

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Profile picture for dlc2025 @dlc2025

My rheumatologist does not want to do a cortisol test, is this unususal?
Trying to get into an endocrinologist.

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It isn't unusual for a rheumatologist not to order a cortisol lab test. This test is hard to interpret when you are still taking prednisone. Even my endocrinologist was reluctant to check my cortisol level until I could maintain a very low dose of Prednisone without needing to increase my dose to control PMR.

My endocrinologist said if I still needed prednsisone to control my autoimmune conditions there was no point in checking my cortisol level. When I said how long I had taken Prednisone, my endocrinologist "expected" my cortisol level to be low. My endocrinologist referred me back to my rheumatologist when I was still needed 10 mg of Prednisone.

A year later when PMR was controlled and I could maintain a 3 mg dose of Prednisone without having a flare my cortisol level was checked. Because I had symptoms of adrenal insufficiency an 8 a.m. morning cortisol level was checked by my rheumatologist. When my cortisol level was low my rheumatologist told me not to decease my Prednisone dose any lower and referred me back to the endocrinologist.

My endocrinologist rechecked my cortisol level and an ACTH level and verified that my cortisol level was low but said there wasn't much she could do. She told me to stay on 3 mg of Prednisone. She offered to switch me to hydrocortisone because she felt hydrocortisone would allow me to regain adrenal function better than Prednisone would. She said it would be okay to take Prednisone if I preferred.

I asked about an Synacthen test but my endocrinologist said it wasn't necessary unless I was still having symptoms when I was off Prednisone. She said a Synacthen test might be needed to determine if I needed to go back on prednisone if I still had symptoms when I wasn't taking any Prednisone.

After my cortisol level improved I was able to discontinue Prednisone but it took 6 months for my cortisol level to improve. Only then did my endocrinologist say "it might be safe to discontinue Prednisone." I never needed a Synacthen test.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6260064/

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Has anyone tried hemp tablets to help polymyalgia ?

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Profile picture for Mike @dadcue

Actemra ... for PMR but it isn't FDA approved for PMR. Kevzara is FDA approved for PMR and should work the same way as Actemra does. There was no guarantee either biologic would work. My rheumatologis said after 12 years, Actemra was my "best chance" of ever getting off Prednisone.

My rheumatologist doesn't think PMR will ever go away at this stage. I have been on Actemra for more than 5 years. I don't have any symptoms of PMR as long as I get a monthly infusion of Actemra.

At least my cortisol level has improved. I don't experience the overwhelming fatigue anymore. I also don't have a PMR flare every time I overdo things, have an infection or when I'm stressed out for any reason.

Except for needing an Actemra infusion every month, I feel completely normal. I'm still recovering from everything that happened during 12 years of PMR and long term Prednisone use. Those years were characterized by one thing after another -- emergency room visits, hospitalizations ... everything under the sun.

The medical literature talks about a "steroid burden." Now I realize how much of a burden Prednisone was.

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Where do you go to get this treatment?

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Profile picture for hjb123 @hjb123

Where do you go to get this treatment?

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My rheumatologist asked me if I would be willing to try Actemra six years ago. It was offered to me and I accepted to offer. My rheumatologist said Actemra was probably my best hope of ever getting off prednisone. My quality of life was low after 12 years of prednisone so I felt like I had nothing to lose by trying Actemra. I didn’t expect much but Actemra gave my life back. I have mostly recovered from PMR and prednisone side effects.

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Profile picture for dlc2025 @dlc2025

My rheumatologist does not want to do a cortisol test, is this unususal?
Trying to get into an endocrinologist.

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I am a new to PMR but have the same concern about my cortisol level and whether I should see an endocrinologist. I have seen one because I only have one one adrenal gland and it has an adenoma. The other reply you got was informative. I think I will ask my primary doctor. When I see my rheumatologist next month I will ask for more information about cortisol. looking at my lab work I don't see that it was tested.

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Profile picture for Mike @dadcue

It isn't unusual for a rheumatologist not to order a cortisol lab test. This test is hard to interpret when you are still taking prednisone. Even my endocrinologist was reluctant to check my cortisol level until I could maintain a very low dose of Prednisone without needing to increase my dose to control PMR.

My endocrinologist said if I still needed prednsisone to control my autoimmune conditions there was no point in checking my cortisol level. When I said how long I had taken Prednisone, my endocrinologist "expected" my cortisol level to be low. My endocrinologist referred me back to my rheumatologist when I was still needed 10 mg of Prednisone.

A year later when PMR was controlled and I could maintain a 3 mg dose of Prednisone without having a flare my cortisol level was checked. Because I had symptoms of adrenal insufficiency an 8 a.m. morning cortisol level was checked by my rheumatologist. When my cortisol level was low my rheumatologist told me not to decease my Prednisone dose any lower and referred me back to the endocrinologist.

My endocrinologist rechecked my cortisol level and an ACTH level and verified that my cortisol level was low but said there wasn't much she could do. She told me to stay on 3 mg of Prednisone. She offered to switch me to hydrocortisone because she felt hydrocortisone would allow me to regain adrenal function better than Prednisone would. She said it would be okay to take Prednisone if I preferred.

I asked about an Synacthen test but my endocrinologist said it wasn't necessary unless I was still having symptoms when I was off Prednisone. She said a Synacthen test might be needed to determine if I needed to go back on prednisone if I still had symptoms when I wasn't taking any Prednisone.

After my cortisol level improved I was able to discontinue Prednisone but it took 6 months for my cortisol level to improve. Only then did my endocrinologist say "it might be safe to discontinue Prednisone." I never needed a Synacthen test.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6260064/

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Does kevzara help when taping from prednisone with the adrenal insufficiency?

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Profile picture for khof @khof

Does kevzara help when taping from prednisone with the adrenal insufficiency?

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Some people would say Kevzara does nothing to directly improve your cortisol level if you have prednisone induced adrenal insufficiency. I would say there is an indirect effect that helps.

Hopefully, Actemra or Kevzara will allow you to taper your Prednisone dose to 3 mg and still prevent a flare of PMR. Being able to stay on 3 mg was the magic dose that allowed my cortisol level to improve. That 3 mg dose of prednisone was a low enough dose for my adrenals to get a strong signal to produce cortisol again.

Adrenal insufficiency from long term prednisone use can persist for a long time. My endocrinologist told me to be prepared to stay on 3 mg of prednisone for "as long as it takes" for my cortisol level to improve. I was only able to stay on 3 mg of prednisone without a flare of PMR because of Actemra. In my case, my cortisol level improved after 6 months. For some people it won't be that long but for other people it might be much longer. I felt awful on 3 mg of prednisone but at least I didn't have a PMR flare.

What usually happens, is that patients taper their prednisone dose lower only to have a flare of PMR. The dose of prednisone at which flares happen is disproportionately around 7 mg which is approximately the dose where our bodies can sense a low cortisol level. Typically a flare of PMR happens and prednisone is increased only to suppress adrenal function some more. Without Actemra, I would never have been able to maintain a 3 mg dose long enough to allow my adrenals to recover some of their function.

After I stopped Prednisone and remained on Actemra alone, my adrenals made a full recovery. The advantage that Actemra and Kevzara have over Prednisone is that these medications can control PMR and GCA without suppressing adrenal function.

The "prednisone deal with the devil" we make happens when our adrenal function gets suppressed. In essence, we replace cortisol with prednisone. The deal results in adrenal suppression and it is difficult to undo this deal.

Artificial intelligence says the following:
"The idea of the "prednisone deal with the devil" is a metaphor for the serious risk of adrenal suppression that comes with corticosteroid use. When you take prednisone, a powerful synthetic steroid, your body no longer needs to produce its own natural stress hormone, cortisol. This effectively "replaces" your natural cortisol with the drug."
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Unfortunately, adrenal insufficiency is the devil we live with when we take long term prednisone..

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