Treatment Guidance Please...Bronchiectasis/Asthma/Reflux

Posted by narelled23 @narelled23, Jun 11 7:14pm

I am feeling confused and would welcome your informed input. Diagnosed with Bronchiectasis and more recently with NTM – MAC and now a decrease in lung function by 25% compared to last test 6 years ago.

Although also diagnosed with asthma in 2009 I had never felt the treatment of it (puffers/inhalers and most commonly Symbicort) made any real difference to the issues bothering me - initially my cough. So generally I have been referred to as uncompliant with regard to treatment for it.

Over the last 18 months I have been following a protocol proposed by the Lung Matters (Facebook group) which specifies daily nebulising with salbutimol followed by 7% hypertonic saline (with no steroids or other puffers inhalers).
My recent NTM lung infection diagnosis may have only been picked up since I have been taking more sputum samples during this protocol. I have also recently found that the salbutimol aggravates my GERD/reflux problems and so I have been nebulising with the saline only.

My recent lung function test apparently shows that I have had a drop of 25% in lung function since the previous test 6 years ago. The physio I saw at this recent RPH specialist appointment has recommended I do gentle huff coughing instead of the nebulising (which I feel is not going to be sufficient). The registrar I saw at this specialist appt once again was pushing Symbicort and/or fluticasone and told me that my bronchiectasis was mild and shouldn't be causing the issues I am experiencing (presumably referring to the at least 7oz cup of fluid from my lungs each nebulising). She seems to think it is asthma/post nasal drip.

I am wondering if I should go back on a trial of Symbicort or something similar to see if it makes a difference.

I am worried that my lung function is decreasing so dramatically and also about the volume of mucus I clear each day (since I have not been able to find anyone else who regularly produces so much).

Clinical history:
2008 no HRCT evidence of emphysema/no convincing HRCT evidence of bronchiestases. Mild bronchial wall thickening mostly basal segments. No small airways disease, non calcified pulmonary nodules < 5mm

2009 Tested POSITIVE to histamine provocation for asthma, peak flow variations between 20 - 25% of peak flow, small airways obstruction and increased relative gas transfer, allergic to house dust Mite and cat, cold air and rapid air flow (talking/laughing/exertion), post nasal drainage, Lung nodules < 5mm, THOMPSON

2011 Small component of eosinophilic/inflammation/involvement of eosinophils, inflammation still occurring, but more likely through different mechanism. Low levels nitric oxide.
PETA GRAYSON

2013 CT - mild general peribronchial wall thickening both fields, mild changes of cylindrical bronchiestases mainly lower lobes. Minor areas of scarring no consolidation, minor areas compressive atelectasis, no endobronchial lesion, small nodules - previous granulomatous disease?
a little calcium in aortic artery, prominent oesophagus related to hiatus hernia?
CHRIS DENZ

2017 lung function shows mild airways limitation; chronic cough thought to be result of undertreated asthma, reflux, and post nasal drip.
BENTLEY RESPIRATORY

2023 CT mild interim generalised bilateral central peribronchial wall thickening both fields, and in lower lobes with interim increase in dilated bronchial wall thickening. Scarring noted, was only faint in 2013. Nodules unchanged. No pleural effusions/thickening.

2024 Told 25% decrease in lung function compared to 6 years ago.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the MAC & Bronchiectasis Support Group.

@sueinmn

@narelled23 Perhaps I am missing something in the diagnostic history above, but I do not see the NTM diagnosis?
Your history reads much like mine - long-term difficult to treat asthma with bronchiectasis. Even after antibiotic treatment, I never felt well until we got the asthma controlled about 2 years ago. It was a concerted effort by the Pulmonologist and me to find the right combination of medication (Symbicort twice a day, Singulair once a day), 7% saline, airway clearance, exercise and deep breathing cycles. That ultimately meant reducing my use of 7% saline nebs to 2-3 times per week, using the Aerobika for airway clearance once a day, and huff coughing or deep-breathing cycles for the other session.
As for the volume of mucus you are experiencing, perhaps it is an irritation response to vigorous airway clearance? I have learned that if I try to clear "every last bit" of mucus from my lungs I produce more and more - to the point where I constantly feel like I am drowning. And unless I am fighting an exacerbation (illness) I do not need 7% saline daily to help clear my lungs. Perhaps there is something to the recommendation from the respiratory therapist?
I understand that the Lung Matters protocol is very specific, but as with every other form of treatment, it is not "the only way" because each one of us is living with a different version of lung disease and our own unique body. In my case, the less rigorous regimen has kept me healthy for over 2 years and counting. Unless I have a respiratory virus, I only have about and ounce of mucus per day - yet my lungs sound clear with a stethoscope.

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Sue, just to clarify...I am barely aware of having asthma ... they had to give me an asthma provocation test to be sure I actually did have asthma at all... and apart from the occasional temp/exercise induced cough I am unaware of it. I generally don't wheeze. So how us asthma a problem for me other than being diagnosed with it. Frustrating!

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@narelled23

Sue, just to clarify...I am barely aware of having asthma ... they had to give me an asthma provocation test to be sure I actually did have asthma at all... and apart from the occasional temp/exercise induced cough I am unaware of it. I generally don't wheeze. So how us asthma a problem for me other than being diagnosed with it. Frustrating!

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You sound like me (years ago) "and apart from the occasional temp/exercise induced cough I am unaware of it. I generally don't wheeze. "
Yup, I had asthma, but I was very active and a runner, so I had well-developed lung capacity that "masked" the asthma except under certain conditions - swimming, high heat & humidity combined, dry very cold air, or whenever I got a cold. My lung capacity was always fine when checked in the doctor's office, until one day when I was tested during a bout of bronchitis.

Hence for many years, probably from early teens to my 40's, the asthma was never treated. After it was diagnosed, I used my albuterol as little as possible because it set off a racing heart and tremors, feelings I detested. I always had allergies, as a child I had significant exposure to asbestos particles, and in my teens and 20's to lots of paper dust. During adolescence and early adulthood, every cold or "bug" turned into an ear or sinus infection, bronchitis or pneumonia.
Again, my conditioning as a runner allowed my to mostly ignore the asthma - until I couldn't. (By the way, the same conditioning allowed me to mostly ignore my increasing hip and back pain - until I couldn't, leading to new hips in my early 50's, but that is another story.) According to my original old-school pulmonologist that was the "perfect storm" that led to developing Bronchiectasis, MAC & Pseudomonas.

I am so glad we always took our daughters' asthma more seriously than my own - perhaps they will be spared the issues I now face.
Sue
PS Looking forward to meeting my newest pulmonologist next month - the "old guard" in our clinic have all retired. I will get a fresh set of eyes looking at my overall lung situation.

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@sueinmn

You sound like me (years ago) "and apart from the occasional temp/exercise induced cough I am unaware of it. I generally don't wheeze. "
Yup, I had asthma, but I was very active and a runner, so I had well-developed lung capacity that "masked" the asthma except under certain conditions - swimming, high heat & humidity combined, dry very cold air, or whenever I got a cold. My lung capacity was always fine when checked in the doctor's office, until one day when I was tested during a bout of bronchitis.

Hence for many years, probably from early teens to my 40's, the asthma was never treated. After it was diagnosed, I used my albuterol as little as possible because it set off a racing heart and tremors, feelings I detested. I always had allergies, as a child I had significant exposure to asbestos particles, and in my teens and 20's to lots of paper dust. During adolescence and early adulthood, every cold or "bug" turned into an ear or sinus infection, bronchitis or pneumonia.
Again, my conditioning as a runner allowed my to mostly ignore the asthma - until I couldn't. (By the way, the same conditioning allowed me to mostly ignore my increasing hip and back pain - until I couldn't, leading to new hips in my early 50's, but that is another story.) According to my original old-school pulmonologist that was the "perfect storm" that led to developing Bronchiectasis, MAC & Pseudomonas.

I am so glad we always took our daughters' asthma more seriously than my own - perhaps they will be spared the issues I now face.
Sue
PS Looking forward to meeting my newest pulmonologist next month - the "old guard" in our clinic have all retired. I will get a fresh set of eyes looking at my overall lung situation.

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Thank you, Sue...there certainly are some similarities.

So despite not being aware of the asthma originally you found great relief when it became well treated?

You sound very fit and motivated.

I wish you well with the "new guard". 😊

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@pacathy

I’d encourage you to work on getting the post nasal drip and reflux under control as well as your asthma. It sounds like what you had been trying didn’t work for you. I’ve only been diagnosed a bit over a year, but had problems with a couple types of cough much longer.

I had a couple small nodules found by an urgent care doc 3 years ago. The f/u CT a year later was much worse with trees in bud, ground glass, etc and I was thought to have MAC and was referred to a local pulmonologist who prescribed Azelastine for the horrid episodic coughing since he thought it was PND and he found I also have mild asthma. He started Stiolta and albuterol for asthma, avoiding steroids due to possible MAC. The Azelastine for post nasal drip helped the horrid cough a lot, but the little nagging, persistent cough remained along with some hoarseness.
I went to Mayo 15 months ago, was diagnosed with bronchiectasis and cultures were negative, I started on albuterol nebs, Advair and a triple nasal spray with Ipratropium, antihistamine and steroid. The steroid inhaler and spray helped so much! The nagging cough was gone with 24 hours and after aggressive treatment by Penn ENT with nasal meds, including sinus washes with steroids , my sinuses, including persistent frontal sinus issues, are finally better controlled and my hoarseness is only intermittent now.

I tell you this because you’re following the Lung Matters protocol and there is some good info there, but just saline rinses didn’t work for my sinuses nor did avoiding steroids control my mild asthma. I’m a retired RN and knows the problems with steroids, but for me, the benefit has outweighed the risks. I posted about the meds helping my cough and sinuses there a couple times and the posts were taken down quickly since they aren’t in that protocol. People are different and one approach may not work for everyone.

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Hello, I have MAC and recently, I have been coughing uncontrollably with mucus. I recently had Covid and the problem appeared to get worse after I tested negative.
I have tried the Azelastine, in the past; it helps some, but not all of the time.
What is Stiolta?
I also cough a lot after I eat. Does this sound familiar to you? TUMS can typically calm these episodes.
I was diagnosed with this condition in 2015.

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Stiolta relaxes the airway and is used primarily in COPd patients. I was started on that by the first pulmonologist I saw once the CT with trees in bud , etc were found. I actually developed bronchiectasis while I was on it. That doc went on medical leave prompting my Mayo visit. The doc there said it was primarily for COPD and switched me to Advair (have mild asthma) once MAC cultures were negative.
Have you contacted your doc and had a sputum culture since the increased production. Is it discolored?

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@pacathy

Stiolta relaxes the airway and is used primarily in COPd patients. I was started on that by the first pulmonologist I saw once the CT with trees in bud , etc were found. I actually developed bronchiectasis while I was on it. That doc went on medical leave prompting my Mayo visit. The doc there said it was primarily for COPD and switched me to Advair (have mild asthma) once MAC cultures were negative.
Have you contacted your doc and had a sputum culture since the increased production. Is it discolored?

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Thank you for your reply!
I am scheduled to go to a new pulmonologist in October, and they will more than likely ask for a sputum culture. Currently my sputum is thick and yellow early morning but it clears up by mid morning. It's then no longer thick, the color changes to almost clear, but it keeps coming. On some days, I can cough up sputum in the morning and go the rest of the day with no coughing (those days are rare) also, coughing appears to get worse after I eat (at any time).

I was seeing a doctor at the Vanderbilt Medical center for the past five or six years. There, once a year I would have a CT Scan to check my lung nodules, and the amount of mucus. Because they were pulmonary surgeons, and the nodules were non-cancerous, they suggested that I see another pulmonologist to keep an eye on my condition. That is why I have made an appointment to see a new doctor.
I never been prescribed medication for my condition.

Another note, I recently had Covid. I'm sure that didn't help my situation.
I appreciate your comments.

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@sueinmn

You sound like me (years ago) "and apart from the occasional temp/exercise induced cough I am unaware of it. I generally don't wheeze. "
Yup, I had asthma, but I was very active and a runner, so I had well-developed lung capacity that "masked" the asthma except under certain conditions - swimming, high heat & humidity combined, dry very cold air, or whenever I got a cold. My lung capacity was always fine when checked in the doctor's office, until one day when I was tested during a bout of bronchitis.

Hence for many years, probably from early teens to my 40's, the asthma was never treated. After it was diagnosed, I used my albuterol as little as possible because it set off a racing heart and tremors, feelings I detested. I always had allergies, as a child I had significant exposure to asbestos particles, and in my teens and 20's to lots of paper dust. During adolescence and early adulthood, every cold or "bug" turned into an ear or sinus infection, bronchitis or pneumonia.
Again, my conditioning as a runner allowed my to mostly ignore the asthma - until I couldn't. (By the way, the same conditioning allowed me to mostly ignore my increasing hip and back pain - until I couldn't, leading to new hips in my early 50's, but that is another story.) According to my original old-school pulmonologist that was the "perfect storm" that led to developing Bronchiectasis, MAC & Pseudomonas.

I am so glad we always took our daughters' asthma more seriously than my own - perhaps they will be spared the issues I now face.
Sue
PS Looking forward to meeting my newest pulmonologist next month - the "old guard" in our clinic have all retired. I will get a fresh set of eyes looking at my overall lung situation.

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Sue, I just wanted to let you know that I have done a few tests of cycling before and after Ventolin recently and found that it made quite a difference. Therefore I have decided to go back on twice daily Symbicort which I have been off for around 5 or 6 years now. Tonight a did a long steep walk that would have left me totally breathless at one part of it, and I feel I did it more easily and without my usual stopping...so I have accepted that the Symbicort is certainly helping my lung capacity in ways I hadn't previously realised.

Thank you so much for sharing your story...it has helped me.

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I. too. have been confused in this journey with Bronchiectasis (BE), diagnosed 10 years ago. Not until I got to National Jewish Health in Denver 8 months ago did I begin to get the BE under control.
It is my understanding that you can get an in-person visit with NJH Bronchiectasis Department, and then continue treatment remotely.
Since NJH is the leading Pulmonary Hospital in the country, I feel I am in the best hands possible.
Like Sue, I could not tolerate Albuterol, heart races using it. So my pulmonologist switched me to Levalbuterol.
My regimen twice daily, am and pm, is Levalbuterol inhaler, followed by 7% nebulized saline, followed by Symbicort (lowest dose). Midday I lie on my back, do vigorous exercises, manual percussion, controlled breathing, huff coughing, all of which clears my lungs of green liquid, then follows coughing up mucous; I am assuming this is clearing my lungs of Pseudomonas.
Levalbuterol opens the airways. Nebulized 7% Saline they say is a game changer. Symbicort helps curb coughing and decreases irritation in the airways.
NJH says the best way to treat BE is Airway Clearance, Airway Clearance, Airway Clearance! They have a lecture series once a year that you can join online. With a decrease in lung function of 25%, perhaps the right pulmonologist along with the right treatment can stop further decrease.
Good luck. Let me know if you have any questions......will be happy to answer.
Pam

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@happy2023

I. too. have been confused in this journey with Bronchiectasis (BE), diagnosed 10 years ago. Not until I got to National Jewish Health in Denver 8 months ago did I begin to get the BE under control.
It is my understanding that you can get an in-person visit with NJH Bronchiectasis Department, and then continue treatment remotely.
Since NJH is the leading Pulmonary Hospital in the country, I feel I am in the best hands possible.
Like Sue, I could not tolerate Albuterol, heart races using it. So my pulmonologist switched me to Levalbuterol.
My regimen twice daily, am and pm, is Levalbuterol inhaler, followed by 7% nebulized saline, followed by Symbicort (lowest dose). Midday I lie on my back, do vigorous exercises, manual percussion, controlled breathing, huff coughing, all of which clears my lungs of green liquid, then follows coughing up mucous; I am assuming this is clearing my lungs of Pseudomonas.
Levalbuterol opens the airways. Nebulized 7% Saline they say is a game changer. Symbicort helps curb coughing and decreases irritation in the airways.
NJH says the best way to treat BE is Airway Clearance, Airway Clearance, Airway Clearance! They have a lecture series once a year that you can join online. With a decrease in lung function of 25%, perhaps the right pulmonologist along with the right treatment can stop further decrease.
Good luck. Let me know if you have any questions......will be happy to answer.
Pam

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Thank you Pam. It seems that my asthma must be playing more of a role in this scenario for me than I guessed. My intention is to work out the lowest dose of Symbicort to be effective and continue with the hypertonic saline nebbing at least once a day...with autogenic drainage/huffing and continue to do as much exercise as possible.

My BE is mild and have been told it shouldn't be causing the volume of mucus I have been having.

I seem to be coughing less and feeling the need to clear less while using the Symbicort.

Thank you for your input.

Wishing you well too.

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@daffy1952

Hello, I have MAC and recently, I have been coughing uncontrollably with mucus. I recently had Covid and the problem appeared to get worse after I tested negative.
I have tried the Azelastine, in the past; it helps some, but not all of the time.
What is Stiolta?
I also cough a lot after I eat. Does this sound familiar to you? TUMS can typically calm these episodes.
I was diagnosed with this condition in 2015.

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I also have mucus and I need to clear my throat all day long. It is worse after I eat.
I have been diagnosed with a hiatal hernia and have read that a hiatal hernia can cause overproduction of mucus and the need to clear the throat. If I understood correctly and am explaining it correctly, with the hiatal hernia the mucus is the body's way to compensate for the acid problem, counteract the acid.
So for me I have to some what assume, hate having to assume, that much of what I have to clear out of my throat is due to the mucus associated with the hiatal hernia. If I am not mistaken Tums is used to control acid. I am not taking any med's for the hiatal hernia/acid. My choice. From all I have heard and read it is a choice of allowing meds to possibly cause other problems or staying away from med's and hope for the best. Strange thing though, I can sleep until I awake due to my bladder telling me to eliminate. I do have to clear my throat some and then go back to sleep.
Not sure if you have posted that you either have Acid Reflux or a Hiatal Hernia??

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