Insomnia. What seems to help?

Posted by terryb1 @128128terry11t, Jan 7, 2017

@josephene I am having terrible insomnia as well. Nothing seems to help. Any specific suggestions? Many thanks.

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@lauralouisenelson

I take 1 mg Clonazepam, but difficulty of withdrawal is not dose dependent. I think it is, however, time dependent, the longer you take them the more time they have to do damage in the brain/CNS, such as causing gaba receptors to become fewer in number. So while there may be plenty of gaba supplied by the benzo, it has forced the brain to seek homeostasis by becoming far less receptive to it. I've taken it for almost 20 years. By the time a doctor got around to telling me about risks for neurological harm and dependence, tolerance, withdrawal I was several YEARS into being prescribed this "safe and effective" drug (big fat lie), so already physically dependent. I've been told by some it was my responsibility to do my homework and that, even though there was no informed consent and no Dr Google, I should have done the research to make myself aware of the danger. I was under the impression I could trust my doctor when she said this was
the safest and most effective thing to help me sleep after insomnia became chronic pursuant to my father's death. And yes, I've done an extremely slow taper, an agonizing two years that ultimately I had to abandon because I felt I was in danger of losing my will to live, such was the agony of withdrawal. But I'm in tolerance, no amount of the drug gives relief, so it feels like "withdrawal lite" - all the same symptoms, just a little milder. My doctor has said the drug has changed the architecture in my brain to the extent I'll have to take it for life. At first I accepted that, but I am so miserable so many days of the week, I just can't imagine living like this for the remainder of my life. So I'm trying to do everything I can to prepare my nervous system for another taper. Not sure I can survive it, but I feel I have no choice, I am like a trapped animal. I want everyone who takes a benzo or is considering it to read this and be warned. This could be you. It is no way to live. I understand the relief benzos give from anxiety and insomnia, but ultimately the drug makes both of those conditions far worse. It's hard to convince someone experiencing the miracle of relief when they start on benzos that they are headed for trouble. I think it's my mission. Thank you

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I have a friend who took Clonazepam for 20 years and was able to get off it....but she didn't take it everyday. Probably why she could get off it easily. If it's way too hard for you to do the taper...and you are miserable everyday....your doctor should give you a little higher dose....so your quality of life improves. Or there are meds to help the process of getting off a benzo. Propranolol or Pregabalin, Gabapentin or Fluoxetine are medications that you should ask your doctor about. Don't give up... there is help to get off benzos if you want it. Is that all your doctor offered was to do the taper? Ask him or her about those meds...

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@kawanhee

What you’ve said is so true! Doctors should either stop prescribing or not allow refills. Took me two tries to get off lorazepam and so glad I’ve been successful.

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Kawanhee....I know you take mirtazapine now....don't you think it's just as addictive as a benzo? And I'm sure there is withdrawal from it if you want to quit. How did you get off lorazepam? A taper? I would like to just use it occasionally for anxiety...but I need something to help me sleep....and I've tried practically everything there is....including mirtazapine which did not work for me. Trazodone didn't work either. I already take diphenhydramine (Benadryl) with lorazepam and still have nights I wake up and can't get back to sleep.

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@lauralouisenelson

I take 1 mg Clonazepam, but difficulty of withdrawal is not dose dependent. I think it is, however, time dependent, the longer you take them the more time they have to do damage in the brain/CNS, such as causing gaba receptors to become fewer in number. So while there may be plenty of gaba supplied by the benzo, it has forced the brain to seek homeostasis by becoming far less receptive to it. I've taken it for almost 20 years. By the time a doctor got around to telling me about risks for neurological harm and dependence, tolerance, withdrawal I was several YEARS into being prescribed this "safe and effective" drug (big fat lie), so already physically dependent. I've been told by some it was my responsibility to do my homework and that, even though there was no informed consent and no Dr Google, I should have done the research to make myself aware of the danger. I was under the impression I could trust my doctor when she said this was
the safest and most effective thing to help me sleep after insomnia became chronic pursuant to my father's death. And yes, I've done an extremely slow taper, an agonizing two years that ultimately I had to abandon because I felt I was in danger of losing my will to live, such was the agony of withdrawal. But I'm in tolerance, no amount of the drug gives relief, so it feels like "withdrawal lite" - all the same symptoms, just a little milder. My doctor has said the drug has changed the architecture in my brain to the extent I'll have to take it for life. At first I accepted that, but I am so miserable so many days of the week, I just can't imagine living like this for the remainder of my life. So I'm trying to do everything I can to prepare my nervous system for another taper. Not sure I can survive it, but I feel I have no choice, I am like a trapped animal. I want everyone who takes a benzo or is considering it to read this and be warned. This could be you. It is no way to live. I understand the relief benzos give from anxiety and insomnia, but ultimately the drug makes both of those conditions far worse. It's hard to convince someone experiencing the miracle of relief when they start on benzos that they are headed for trouble. I think it's my mission. Thank you

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Another med for insomnia to ask doctor about is Amtriptyline

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@lauralouisenelson

Benzos work so great to calm anxiety and facilitate sleep, but they are intended for very short term use, once off, or very occasional use. Otherwise they become less effective (tolerance) at the same time you are becoming physically dependent. One in 5 or 6 people who take them have a really wretched withdrawal, so it turns out people (like me) have stayed on them even though they are harmful to the brain in the long run, because they cannot tolerate the withdrawal. It's a really awful place to be. I agree that sleep is important, but these drugs will turn on you and actually WORSEN your sleep as they change your brain architecture. How long have you taken them? Do they still knock you out? My message to professionals would be a little different. I would encourage them to get their heads out of their butts and stop prescribing harmful drugs that will hook patients but won't help patients past the very short term.

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I was able to taper off Klonopin - 1 mg after about 12 years of using 1mg every night for sleep. It was not easy, but I will never go back. I was a happy camper all the years I was on it, not aware of anything other than it worked great and I was able to sleep. Never increased the dose or took it during the daytime. Only when I was forced off of it because I was turning 65 did I even entertain the idea. The problem was, the doctor doing the taper minimized my reaction to getting off the medication. He did not offer anything else, and discharged me at the end of the taper, when the withdrawals were terrible. The taper was over 9 months, and at the end of it, I did not sleep much at all for another 9 months, trying everything behavioral, OTC meds, antihistamines, even cannabis gummies - which was the only thing that helped somewhat for awhile. A sleep medicine doctor finally affirmed my sleep problems were as damaging as any drug - chronic insomnia changes your brain and affects all aspects of your life. The side effects of chronic insomnia are similar to those of sleep meds - memory issues, increased falls, etc. Sleep is important, and if your brain won't allow you to sleep, then taking a medication is better. Lunesta works for me, thankfully, and I'm a better, less anxious person sleeping. She had an arsenal of drugs to try if it didn't work. Ambien caused increased anxiety for me. My advice would be to work with a Neurologist specializing in sleep. Allow your taper to be as gradual as you need it to be and understand that your brain is altered, yes, but our brains are amazingly adept at re-organizing through neuroplasticity. Norman Doidge has written some great books on the subject. Since Lunesta does not help with anxiety, I am able to use the behavioral tools I've learned and breathe through the anxiety. I stay active, and do things like birding and puzzling to keep my mind calm busy. Best of luck. I believe in you!

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Exercise.

I had problems sleeping for years and tried OTC and prescription drugs that generally were ineffective. I'd been athletic as a kid, but got sucked into the work-is-life rut and forgot about staying in shape. Then, I retired and got back into getting regular exercise. Result: sleep pretty well, now w/o the drugs.

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@con123

I was able to taper off Klonopin - 1 mg after about 12 years of using 1mg every night for sleep. It was not easy, but I will never go back. I was a happy camper all the years I was on it, not aware of anything other than it worked great and I was able to sleep. Never increased the dose or took it during the daytime. Only when I was forced off of it because I was turning 65 did I even entertain the idea. The problem was, the doctor doing the taper minimized my reaction to getting off the medication. He did not offer anything else, and discharged me at the end of the taper, when the withdrawals were terrible. The taper was over 9 months, and at the end of it, I did not sleep much at all for another 9 months, trying everything behavioral, OTC meds, antihistamines, even cannabis gummies - which was the only thing that helped somewhat for awhile. A sleep medicine doctor finally affirmed my sleep problems were as damaging as any drug - chronic insomnia changes your brain and affects all aspects of your life. The side effects of chronic insomnia are similar to those of sleep meds - memory issues, increased falls, etc. Sleep is important, and if your brain won't allow you to sleep, then taking a medication is better. Lunesta works for me, thankfully, and I'm a better, less anxious person sleeping. She had an arsenal of drugs to try if it didn't work. Ambien caused increased anxiety for me. My advice would be to work with a Neurologist specializing in sleep. Allow your taper to be as gradual as you need it to be and understand that your brain is altered, yes, but our brains are amazingly adept at re-organizing through neuroplasticity. Norman Doidge has written some great books on the subject. Since Lunesta does not help with anxiety, I am able to use the behavioral tools I've learned and breathe through the anxiety. I stay active, and do things like birding and puzzling to keep my mind calm busy. Best of luck. I believe in you!

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Congratulations!

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@itchyd

Exercise.

I had problems sleeping for years and tried OTC and prescription drugs that generally were ineffective. I'd been athletic as a kid, but got sucked into the work-is-life rut and forgot about staying in shape. Then, I retired and got back into getting regular exercise. Result: sleep pretty well, now w/o the drugs.

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You are very fortunate! Congrats!

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@kawanhee

You are very fortunate! Congrats!

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Hope my comments help others. IMHO, it's better to try to keep the drug inventory to a minimum.

Oh, I quit the booze, too. That's probably where the lion's share of the benefit came from. Alcohol's not a wise choice for good sleep hygiene.

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I am wondering if the writer is a female. After menopause my sleep became problematic for the first time. I tried lots of non-Rx solutions that did not work. Two have helped tremendously: CBD tincture before bed and wild yam topical progesterone cream.

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@itchyd

Hope my comments help others. IMHO, it's better to try to keep the drug inventory to a minimum.

Oh, I quit the booze, too. That's probably where the lion's share of the benefit came from. Alcohol's not a wise choice for good sleep hygiene.

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You and I have experienced similar projectories. For a few years in my 70's I was able to sleep well at night but only with the help of marijuana, not a lot but nightly. I knew that inhaling smoke in my lungs couldn't be a good thing, and eventually I began to have serious issues with short term memory which was actually a little scary. I also drank more than I should. So finally I just decided to quit. It seemed like the only option. And it has taken many months to find my new norm, but I think I may have it now.
My sleep now is nothing like in my younger days. I go to sleep later when I truly begin to feel sleepy, and usually I will be slightly fitful until I get up in a couple of hours, go to the bathroom and maybe even sit and read for a bit with a glass of warm milk and honey. That really does the trick though. I may get up once more for another bathroom visit but it seems to work. I don't think I get much more than 5 or 6 good hours now but that seems to be enough. Short term memory has returned and lung capacity seems to have increased. I do exercise 3 or 4 times a week with a trainer and that is absolutely necessary for a whole bunch of reasons.
It was hard to stop cold turkey and it took quite a while, many months, before I started to find the new norm. There were nights I only slept an hour or two, which resulted in naps during the day and another night of sleep problems. I recorded my sleep cycles as instructed by the Mayo sleep specialist, kept the room colder, and all those things. They all helped. I feel like I'm on a new path now, which will be tested as we start to travel more and leave home.
One final note, I no longer smoke marijuana which is great. When I did and tried to use edibles, they just didn't work at all. Now, with my cleaner habits, they are effective. So if I really need to sleep I can take a 10mg bite sized piece, and it works. I know though that if this ever became a routine habit, it would simply escalate so I am trying to stay away from that particular solution.

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