Improve bone density and strength without medication?

Posted by plav @plav, Dec 20, 2023

Any luck improving bone density and strength without medication? It seems the medications only mildly help ... and they only help some patients; some studies show the slight improvement in density does not mean quality bone was built. I'm not comfortable with moving forward with the treatments just because "that's what we give patients with osteoporosis". There seems to be no room for education or discussion, or research into actual results or other options.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

When my husband was originally on coumadin, he was told to pay strict attention to his Vitamin K intake. The requirement was that he maintain a stable level, rather than restricting intake ongoing for a specific level.

When he was switched to Eliquis, his cardiologist said he no longer had to worry about K intake

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@windyshores

My heart rate is fine most of the time @gently. I have paroxysmal afib which means once or twice a year or even every two years, I have an episode of very fast heart rate accompanying afib. Because I am hard to treat, due to low blood pressure, I have to call an ambulance and go to ER. The rest of the time I am fine.

I am not concerned about a small amount of K2 daily in a gummy- 45mcg is not a lot. If you want to share a study on this, it would be appreciated. Of course afib can cause clots/stroke but it is unclear how long the episode has to be for that to happen (it ranges from minutes to 48 hours). MY CHADS score is 2- no hypertension, obesity, diabetes etc. so risk factors are low.

I take all the electrolytes to balance them as described in the Afib Cure (book) and the afibbers forum.

I am nowhere near needing an ablation or maze and have never needed a cardioversion. I convert naturally anywhere from 15 minutes to 7 hours in.

Again would love to see any info on K2 and afib.

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windyshores, I never found medical literature on K2 and afib. I thought it could be just that supplements are not well studied. I asked every endocrinologist I consulted with why they didn't recommend K2. While some are unaware of it's use. The best bone guys said there was just no evidence of it's value. The extant literature (mechanism of action not clinical trials) is completely positive about the use-- for bones, for cancer, for heart, for liver disease.
The endocrinologists (I've seen, except one ) don't recommend calcium supplements either. You are probably too young to remember the days when those Citrical bottles were prominant on every endo-desk.
I was taking 90mcg x3 daily MK7 plus the underthetongue 4mcg MK4 Now I'm once a day with the 90 and twice with the 4, but I only take 500mg calcium in split dose.
What do they do when you go to the ER ? Is it IVfluids to try and raise your blood pressure and then just watch until your heart rights itself.
You have fascinating body. Do you plan to give it to science in the end.

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@gently

windyshores, I never found medical literature on K2 and afib. I thought it could be just that supplements are not well studied. I asked every endocrinologist I consulted with why they didn't recommend K2. While some are unaware of it's use. The best bone guys said there was just no evidence of it's value. The extant literature (mechanism of action not clinical trials) is completely positive about the use-- for bones, for cancer, for heart, for liver disease.
The endocrinologists (I've seen, except one ) don't recommend calcium supplements either. You are probably too young to remember the days when those Citrical bottles were prominant on every endo-desk.
I was taking 90mcg x3 daily MK7 plus the underthetongue 4mcg MK4 Now I'm once a day with the 90 and twice with the 4, but I only take 500mg calcium in split dose.
What do they do when you go to the ER ? Is it IVfluids to try and raise your blood pressure and then just watch until your heart rights itself.
You have fascinating body. Do you plan to give it to science in the end.

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IV fluids to keep blood pressure up because the meds for afib lower blood pressure further!

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My PCP prescribed Prolia for my osteoporosis, but I have not started using it as I sensitive to medications, and worried about side effects. I still work full time, just turned 80, walking thousands of steps every day. Follow a healthy diet. (5 feet tall, 99 lbs). Today my doc said I must take Prolia, since it is the only drug that promotes bone re-building. He said there are no alternatives, or supplements that will help....I just rec'd first order of Osteo-Slim, and am reading Dr. McCormick book. Does anybody have any suggestions or experience with Prolia?

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@malliecallie

My PCP prescribed Prolia for my osteoporosis, but I have not started using it as I sensitive to medications, and worried about side effects. I still work full time, just turned 80, walking thousands of steps every day. Follow a healthy diet. (5 feet tall, 99 lbs). Today my doc said I must take Prolia, since it is the only drug that promotes bone re-building. He said there are no alternatives, or supplements that will help....I just rec'd first order of Osteo-Slim, and am reading Dr. McCormick book. Does anybody have any suggestions or experience with Prolia?

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@malliecallie I think you might want to see an endocrinologist. Prolia is not the only drug that builds bone and it is actually an anti-resorptive, not an anabolic bone builder like Tymlos or Forteo. Evenity is an anabolic for the first half and anti-resorptive for the second half.

Anti-resorptives affect bone turnover and so bone density may improve but not bone quality. Many of us have started with an anabolic that builds quality bone, and then we "lock in" with a bisphosphonate.

My doctors don't use Prolia because it is so risky to get off, in terms of a rapid loss of bone density and increase in fracture risk. If you do it only a couple of times, a bisphosphonate can address that rebound effect, but Tymlos and Forteo don't work well after Prolia so you don't have many choices. Evenity might be possible.

Since you are 80, it is possible you could take Prolia and stay on it for the rest of your life and not have to deal with the rebound, but an endocrinologist would have to discuss that with you.

I hope, after reading "Great Bones," that you are able to find an endocrinologist you trust. You can also do a consult by phone or in person with McCormick- $350 for first consultation and $85 thereafter.

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@windyshores

@malliecallie I think you might want to see an endocrinologist. Prolia is not the only drug that builds bone and it is actually an anti-resorptive, not an anabolic bone builder like Tymlos or Forteo. Evenity is an anabolic for the first half and anti-resorptive for the second half.

Anti-resorptives affect bone turnover and so bone density may improve but not bone quality. Many of us have started with an anabolic that builds quality bone, and then we "lock in" with a bisphosphonate.

My doctors don't use Prolia because it is so risky to get off, in terms of a rapid loss of bone density and increase in fracture risk. If you do it only a couple of times, a bisphosphonate can address that rebound effect, but Tymlos and Forteo don't work well after Prolia so you don't have many choices. Evenity might be possible.

Since you are 80, it is possible you could take Prolia and stay on it for the rest of your life and not have to deal with the rebound, but an endocrinologist would have to discuss that with you.

I hope, after reading "Great Bones," that you are able to find an endocrinologist you trust. You can also do a consult by phone or in person with McCormick- $350 for first consultation and $85 thereafter.

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Thank you so much for reading and responding. I am going to heed your advice..and see an endocrinologist..again, I am grateful for your help.

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I am getting off calcium supplements..they have too much extra stuff added. I was doing jarrow and started having heart palpitations. I think they put ingredients into the supplement that we are not aware of and causes harm . I do have osteoporosis and will increase my calcium with food and exercise...hopefully my results will stay the same on dexa

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I took Anastrozole for 7 months and, among other nasty side effects, my already fragile left knee blew out (symptoms like a meniscus tear) and put me in a wheelchair for 6 months. I also had 2 teeth that split below the gumline. One was crowned. One had to be removed by an oral surgeon and a dental implant was inserted---after much discussion of whether or not my bones were up to the removal and the implant. (Took from Nov. 19, 2023 until May 9, 2024 and ended up costing me $10 grand.) I have been in the car of an endocrinologist since 2017, after a diagnosis of Type II diabetes (7.2 A1C). My bone density was measured in 2017, 2019, 2022 and 2024. It has steadily declined (as have I) from -1.4T to -2.2T. I was given something to address this, but chose to not take it, because I know how complicated "what to take when" can be. (This failure to take a biphosphanate made it possible to go ahead with the dental implant). I realize that Medicare won't pay for a bone density test if you have them more frequently than every 2 years, but I noticed that the big drop took place after my breast cancer treatment (1/27/2022) and the 7 months I spent on Anastrozole. I was told (by my endocrinologist) to take a lot of calcium supplements and, while doing that, there was little move of any kind, subsequent to my discontinuation of Anastrozole (and, later, Tamoxifen). What book should I read to be prepared for future drops in my bone density and for being prepared to (potentially) take something if old age, alone, drags me further into the osteoporosis range. (I have taken no adjuvant therapy cancer drugs since Aug. 30, 2023.)

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@bettersleep68

I am getting off calcium supplements..they have too much extra stuff added. I was doing jarrow and started having heart palpitations. I think they put ingredients into the supplement that we are not aware of and causes harm . I do have osteoporosis and will increase my calcium with food and exercise...hopefully my results will stay the same on dexa

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I just changed to Cabot yogurt to increase my calcium intake. It has 405 mg of calcium.

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@bruceandruth1970

I just changed to Cabot yogurt to increase my calcium intake. It has 405 mg of calcium.

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I have never seen this brand. Do you find it in a regular grocery store? I will be looking. Thanks

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