I had both a laminotomy and a laminectomy during the same surgery. I really can't tell you about pain or recovery rate. But, the level with the laminotomy needed a fusion at the same time as the level with a laminectomy. You will have slightly more stability in your spine with just a laminotomy and I imagine the recovery time would be similar to a laminectomy. You will still need to take good care of your spine, do regular exercises and stretches and be careful about bending, twisting, lifting and reaching. It's still back surgery and your spine will need some pampering.
I just am not clear about when I can start stretching and exercising post op. I don't even have a post op visit with the surgeon for a month after because he will be going on vacation!
I just am not clear about when I can start stretching and exercising post op. I don't even have a post op visit with the surgeon for a month after because he will be going on vacation!
@annie1 Annie, After surgery, your surgeon will give you postoperative instructions with restrictions like no lifting more than 10 pounds or twisting, bending, etc. It takes about 6 weeks for the incision to heal completely. I’m sure you will have a number to call for questions and there will another doctor overseeing patients in recovery. I talked to a neurosurgeon resident who was on call after my spine surgery.
Jennifer
@annie1 Annie, After surgery, your surgeon will give you postoperative instructions with restrictions like no lifting more than 10 pounds or twisting, bending, etc. It takes about 6 weeks for the incision to heal completely. I’m sure you will have a number to call for questions and there will another doctor overseeing patients in recovery. I talked to a neurosurgeon resident who was on call after my spine surgery.
Jennifer
Thanks Jennifer. But when they say 6 weeks for recovery within that time frame will I be able to be going out side and taking walks and maybe taking a bus somewhere? Also I'm a little concerned about things like making my bed because I have to shake out the sheet and I think that would require muscles in my back? And they said they wouldn't tell me ahead of time whether I was going to be getting home health aides, they would evaluate me on the hospital. Also a big love of mine is swimming and I was wondering if I'll be able to swim before 6 weeks or I would have to wait that whole time.
Thanks again. They say the surgeon will be doing minimally invasive surgery and I am curious can they see into my spine with that? I don't understand the procedure at all really except that they'll make a small incision cut out part of the lamina. And I'm supposing they have some Imaging while they're working on me? To be able to see what's going on in there. Very interesting and so much to learn. The more knowledge I have the less afraid I'll be I guess, I hope. Also my symptoms seem to be changing I don't have as much throbbing now in my calf muscles but my back itself is hurting more. Plus another surgeon I saw took an x-ray of my pelvis and said that my right hip has severe osteoarthritis which will eventually cause my hip to fuse on its own. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing and how much pain that will create but it already is creating pain in my right hip.
@annie1
Annie, Your surgeon has to clear you for everything. My guess is that your surgeon will allow you to walk, but not swim. While the incision is healing, they don't want it softening and loosening in water. I was told no pools or hot tubs or soaking bath for 6 weeks. The shower was OK as long as I didn't rub on the incision, and I was allowed to shower on day 2. You will have the incision closed with something. I had dissolving sutures and that was covered with steri strips to hold the skin together. I had to leave those and not pull them off which took 3 weeks for them to fall off on their own. This gives a nice clean and narrow scar which isn't visible (and it's in front in a crease on my neck). Some surgeons use a type of glue to close the incision. Your scar will be on your back, so I don't know if it will be wider because of that. Every time you move, it will probably pull a little bit on the incision which hurts, and you probably won't want to move much. I think taking a public bus ride would be too much with stepping up and down and leaning back in a seat on your incision, and then every bump in the road bumps on your back.
You won't want to lean over, so give yourself permission to not make the bed for as long as you need to feel better. I had all my comfy clothes folded in bins on a table next to the bed so I wouldn't have to bend over for anything. Pulling open a drawer will put a little pressure on your back when it hurts. I put elastic laces in my gym shoes so I could just slip them on. That kept me from needing to bend and I couldn't bend my neck to look at my feet.
You've talked about having difficulty walking, and that is why I think they will evaluate you after surgery for home health. After surgery, you are a fall risk because of anesthesia and your ability if that is compromised or not. Anesthesia and immobility also increase the risk for blood clots after surgery for about a month. When I had a respiratory infection after my spine surgery, the Immediate Care would not see me because they didn't have emergency equipment to handle me if there were blood clots that could get to my lungs. This is also why hospitals want patents to walk right after surgery. The anesthesia drugs suppress your normal breathing during surgery and you have to move your lungs so you don't trap phlegm and develop pneumonia. I had some physical issues with moving my ribs which caused trapped phlegm, and I got a chest infection a few days after surgery.
It may take a while to rehab back to strength if you have a deficit now. They may want you to use a walker which is good for stability and you can hold onto it getting in and out of bed. I used one when I broke my ankle and could not weight bear and I hopped along with it. It also helped later when my ankle was out of the cast and weak and I was walking on it. You have to take the risk of a fall seriously because of osteoporosis, and because they will have removed a bit of bone from your spine. I later had the hardware plates removed from my ankle and that put me at risk of fracture because of the holes left by the screws for awhile.
Your surgeon will clear you at your follow up appointments for increasing activity. You can ask to be sent to physical therapy. Once you are past the healing time on the incision, and physically able to be able to get to the pool, I'll bet your surgeon would embrace that activity.
@annie1
Annie, Your surgeon has to clear you for everything. My guess is that your surgeon will allow you to walk, but not swim. While the incision is healing, they don't want it softening and loosening in water. I was told no pools or hot tubs or soaking bath for 6 weeks. The shower was OK as long as I didn't rub on the incision, and I was allowed to shower on day 2. You will have the incision closed with something. I had dissolving sutures and that was covered with steri strips to hold the skin together. I had to leave those and not pull them off which took 3 weeks for them to fall off on their own. This gives a nice clean and narrow scar which isn't visible (and it's in front in a crease on my neck). Some surgeons use a type of glue to close the incision. Your scar will be on your back, so I don't know if it will be wider because of that. Every time you move, it will probably pull a little bit on the incision which hurts, and you probably won't want to move much. I think taking a public bus ride would be too much with stepping up and down and leaning back in a seat on your incision, and then every bump in the road bumps on your back.
You won't want to lean over, so give yourself permission to not make the bed for as long as you need to feel better. I had all my comfy clothes folded in bins on a table next to the bed so I wouldn't have to bend over for anything. Pulling open a drawer will put a little pressure on your back when it hurts. I put elastic laces in my gym shoes so I could just slip them on. That kept me from needing to bend and I couldn't bend my neck to look at my feet.
You've talked about having difficulty walking, and that is why I think they will evaluate you after surgery for home health. After surgery, you are a fall risk because of anesthesia and your ability if that is compromised or not. Anesthesia and immobility also increase the risk for blood clots after surgery for about a month. When I had a respiratory infection after my spine surgery, the Immediate Care would not see me because they didn't have emergency equipment to handle me if there were blood clots that could get to my lungs. This is also why hospitals want patents to walk right after surgery. The anesthesia drugs suppress your normal breathing during surgery and you have to move your lungs so you don't trap phlegm and develop pneumonia. I had some physical issues with moving my ribs which caused trapped phlegm, and I got a chest infection a few days after surgery.
It may take a while to rehab back to strength if you have a deficit now. They may want you to use a walker which is good for stability and you can hold onto it getting in and out of bed. I used one when I broke my ankle and could not weight bear and I hopped along with it. It also helped later when my ankle was out of the cast and weak and I was walking on it. You have to take the risk of a fall seriously because of osteoporosis, and because they will have removed a bit of bone from your spine. I later had the hardware plates removed from my ankle and that put me at risk of fracture because of the holes left by the screws for awhile.
Your surgeon will clear you at your follow up appointments for increasing activity. You can ask to be sent to physical therapy. Once you are past the healing time on the incision, and physically able to be able to get to the pool, I'll bet your surgeon would embrace that activity.
Thanks again Jennifer. The thing that bothers me about where I am having the surgery is that the only one I can talk to now is the Nurse Practitioner who works with the Surgeon. She hasn't told me many of the things you have, about even opening a drawer will hurt. She said I will probably be able to do everything, which seems a bit unrealistic to me.
But first I want to clarify, I am having minimally invasive surgery, so i don't know if that's what you were talking about.
I am going to cut and paste her answers to me so that you can see for yourself what you think, although they did send me a long message about what to expect after.
Also is it the usual protocol that the surgeon doesn't see you in person before the surgery ? I am not able to see him before the surgery.
@annie1
Annie, Your surgeon has to clear you for everything. My guess is that your surgeon will allow you to walk, but not swim. While the incision is healing, they don't want it softening and loosening in water. I was told no pools or hot tubs or soaking bath for 6 weeks. The shower was OK as long as I didn't rub on the incision, and I was allowed to shower on day 2. You will have the incision closed with something. I had dissolving sutures and that was covered with steri strips to hold the skin together. I had to leave those and not pull them off which took 3 weeks for them to fall off on their own. This gives a nice clean and narrow scar which isn't visible (and it's in front in a crease on my neck). Some surgeons use a type of glue to close the incision. Your scar will be on your back, so I don't know if it will be wider because of that. Every time you move, it will probably pull a little bit on the incision which hurts, and you probably won't want to move much. I think taking a public bus ride would be too much with stepping up and down and leaning back in a seat on your incision, and then every bump in the road bumps on your back.
You won't want to lean over, so give yourself permission to not make the bed for as long as you need to feel better. I had all my comfy clothes folded in bins on a table next to the bed so I wouldn't have to bend over for anything. Pulling open a drawer will put a little pressure on your back when it hurts. I put elastic laces in my gym shoes so I could just slip them on. That kept me from needing to bend and I couldn't bend my neck to look at my feet.
You've talked about having difficulty walking, and that is why I think they will evaluate you after surgery for home health. After surgery, you are a fall risk because of anesthesia and your ability if that is compromised or not. Anesthesia and immobility also increase the risk for blood clots after surgery for about a month. When I had a respiratory infection after my spine surgery, the Immediate Care would not see me because they didn't have emergency equipment to handle me if there were blood clots that could get to my lungs. This is also why hospitals want patents to walk right after surgery. The anesthesia drugs suppress your normal breathing during surgery and you have to move your lungs so you don't trap phlegm and develop pneumonia. I had some physical issues with moving my ribs which caused trapped phlegm, and I got a chest infection a few days after surgery.
It may take a while to rehab back to strength if you have a deficit now. They may want you to use a walker which is good for stability and you can hold onto it getting in and out of bed. I used one when I broke my ankle and could not weight bear and I hopped along with it. It also helped later when my ankle was out of the cast and weak and I was walking on it. You have to take the risk of a fall seriously because of osteoporosis, and because they will have removed a bit of bone from your spine. I later had the hardware plates removed from my ankle and that put me at risk of fracture because of the holes left by the screws for awhile.
Your surgeon will clear you at your follow up appointments for increasing activity. You can ask to be sent to physical therapy. Once you are past the healing time on the incision, and physically able to be able to get to the pool, I'll bet your surgeon would embrace that activity.
This is what the Nurse Practitioner said about after my surgery; I had asked if I could set up home health sooner but she said they will evaluate me in the hospital. I mentioned not bending, twisting and lifting and this was her answer, see below.
You cannot get this done now, and you will not need at home help just because of not bending , twisting at the waist.
Sharran FNP
Message from Anne T Bassen, sent February 6 at 2:03 PM
A
You
Feb 6, 2:03 PM
This is what the Nurse Practitioner said about after my surgery; I had asked if I could set up home health sooner but she said they will evaluate me in the hospital. I mentioned not bending, twisting and lifting and this was her answer, see below.
You cannot get this done now, and you will not need at home help just because of not bending , twisting at the waist.
Sharran FNP
Message from Anne T Bassen, sent February 6 at 2:03 PM
A
You
Feb 6, 2:03 PM
@annie1 I'm so sorry they are not taking the time to address your concerns and I understand why that upsets you. They have to be careful how they answer you because of insurance and legal issues and they don't want to promise something that wouldn't be covered by insurance. I don't know how big your incision will be for minimally invasive surgery or how many incisions they will need. It may be an easier recovery than most lumbar procedures, but I don't have experience there. My surgery was not minimally invasive, and a fusion has a longer recovery time. My incision was about 3 inches.
I think it is reasonable to ask a surgeon to see you before the procedure for a few minutes. My surgeon at Mayo did that for me and I was much calmer because of it. Is this surgeon rushing to get through too many cases in a day? I want to know that a surgeon who cuts on me is calm and unhurried. It takes a couple of minutes to say hello and reassure a patient that you are in charge and concerned about their well being. It is hard to be a patient facing fears and get no compassion from providers. My surgeon's nurse held my hand in the operating room.
I know this is a difficult time for you, and this doesn't make it easy to trust your surgical team. I fired a surgeon like that, but he wasn't going to help me anyway because he didn't really understand the diagnosis and didn't take enough time to even know that. He spent 5 minutes at the most in the consultation and wouldn't answer questions having looked at my imaging without me. Well, no thank you. You have to do what you think is right for you. If you want to call Mayo tomorrow and ask about care there, you can do that if that is a feasible option for you as in insurance and wait time, etc.
Is this non-communication causing anxiety for you? Only you know how much pain and disability you live with now and if you had to wait for a different surgeon, would you be able to do that?
I know how hard this is, and what it is like to deal with a nurse like that. One surgeon's nurse refused to make appointments for me with the surgeon because they didn't believe my symptoms were connected to my spine problem, and this was a big head of department at a major medical center making this mistake. I had to look elsewhere. It took me 2 years and seeing 5 surgeons wasting my time before I came to Mayo.
What do you want to do? Is this surgeon highly recommended to you by your private physician? Have you checked out his background and reputation? Any disciplinary actions against him with your state's regulatory medical board? I don't want to give you more to worry about, but it makes me worry to hear these things about a surgeon. You have to hire the surgeon you trust and who offers you the best solution. FYI, you should still be able to edit your post now if you wanted to remove your name from it.
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@annie1
Here is Mayo's information on laminotomy which I understand removes less bone and is less invasive than a laminectomy.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/spinal-stenosis/multimedia/img-20149227
I had both a laminotomy and a laminectomy during the same surgery. I really can't tell you about pain or recovery rate. But, the level with the laminotomy needed a fusion at the same time as the level with a laminectomy. You will have slightly more stability in your spine with just a laminotomy and I imagine the recovery time would be similar to a laminectomy. You will still need to take good care of your spine, do regular exercises and stretches and be careful about bending, twisting, lifting and reaching. It's still back surgery and your spine will need some pampering.
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2 ReactionsI just am not clear about when I can start stretching and exercising post op. I don't even have a post op visit with the surgeon for a month after because he will be going on vacation!
@annie1 Annie, After surgery, your surgeon will give you postoperative instructions with restrictions like no lifting more than 10 pounds or twisting, bending, etc. It takes about 6 weeks for the incision to heal completely. I’m sure you will have a number to call for questions and there will another doctor overseeing patients in recovery. I talked to a neurosurgeon resident who was on call after my spine surgery.
Jennifer
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3 ReactionsThanks Jennifer. But when they say 6 weeks for recovery within that time frame will I be able to be going out side and taking walks and maybe taking a bus somewhere? Also I'm a little concerned about things like making my bed because I have to shake out the sheet and I think that would require muscles in my back? And they said they wouldn't tell me ahead of time whether I was going to be getting home health aides, they would evaluate me on the hospital. Also a big love of mine is swimming and I was wondering if I'll be able to swim before 6 weeks or I would have to wait that whole time.
Thanks again. They say the surgeon will be doing minimally invasive surgery and I am curious can they see into my spine with that? I don't understand the procedure at all really except that they'll make a small incision cut out part of the lamina. And I'm supposing they have some Imaging while they're working on me? To be able to see what's going on in there. Very interesting and so much to learn. The more knowledge I have the less afraid I'll be I guess, I hope. Also my symptoms seem to be changing I don't have as much throbbing now in my calf muscles but my back itself is hurting more. Plus another surgeon I saw took an x-ray of my pelvis and said that my right hip has severe osteoarthritis which will eventually cause my hip to fuse on its own. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing and how much pain that will create but it already is creating pain in my right hip.
@annie1
Annie, Your surgeon has to clear you for everything. My guess is that your surgeon will allow you to walk, but not swim. While the incision is healing, they don't want it softening and loosening in water. I was told no pools or hot tubs or soaking bath for 6 weeks. The shower was OK as long as I didn't rub on the incision, and I was allowed to shower on day 2. You will have the incision closed with something. I had dissolving sutures and that was covered with steri strips to hold the skin together. I had to leave those and not pull them off which took 3 weeks for them to fall off on their own. This gives a nice clean and narrow scar which isn't visible (and it's in front in a crease on my neck). Some surgeons use a type of glue to close the incision. Your scar will be on your back, so I don't know if it will be wider because of that. Every time you move, it will probably pull a little bit on the incision which hurts, and you probably won't want to move much. I think taking a public bus ride would be too much with stepping up and down and leaning back in a seat on your incision, and then every bump in the road bumps on your back.
You won't want to lean over, so give yourself permission to not make the bed for as long as you need to feel better. I had all my comfy clothes folded in bins on a table next to the bed so I wouldn't have to bend over for anything. Pulling open a drawer will put a little pressure on your back when it hurts. I put elastic laces in my gym shoes so I could just slip them on. That kept me from needing to bend and I couldn't bend my neck to look at my feet.
You've talked about having difficulty walking, and that is why I think they will evaluate you after surgery for home health. After surgery, you are a fall risk because of anesthesia and your ability if that is compromised or not. Anesthesia and immobility also increase the risk for blood clots after surgery for about a month. When I had a respiratory infection after my spine surgery, the Immediate Care would not see me because they didn't have emergency equipment to handle me if there were blood clots that could get to my lungs. This is also why hospitals want patents to walk right after surgery. The anesthesia drugs suppress your normal breathing during surgery and you have to move your lungs so you don't trap phlegm and develop pneumonia. I had some physical issues with moving my ribs which caused trapped phlegm, and I got a chest infection a few days after surgery.
It may take a while to rehab back to strength if you have a deficit now. They may want you to use a walker which is good for stability and you can hold onto it getting in and out of bed. I used one when I broke my ankle and could not weight bear and I hopped along with it. It also helped later when my ankle was out of the cast and weak and I was walking on it. You have to take the risk of a fall seriously because of osteoporosis, and because they will have removed a bit of bone from your spine. I later had the hardware plates removed from my ankle and that put me at risk of fracture because of the holes left by the screws for awhile.
Your surgeon will clear you at your follow up appointments for increasing activity. You can ask to be sent to physical therapy. Once you are past the healing time on the incision, and physically able to be able to get to the pool, I'll bet your surgeon would embrace that activity.
Jennifer
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2 ReactionsThanks again Jennifer. The thing that bothers me about where I am having the surgery is that the only one I can talk to now is the Nurse Practitioner who works with the Surgeon. She hasn't told me many of the things you have, about even opening a drawer will hurt. She said I will probably be able to do everything, which seems a bit unrealistic to me.
But first I want to clarify, I am having minimally invasive surgery, so i don't know if that's what you were talking about.
I am going to cut and paste her answers to me so that you can see for yourself what you think, although they did send me a long message about what to expect after.
Also is it the usual protocol that the surgeon doesn't see you in person before the surgery ? I am not able to see him before the surgery.
This is what the Nurse Practitioner said about after my surgery; I had asked if I could set up home health sooner but she said they will evaluate me in the hospital. I mentioned not bending, twisting and lifting and this was her answer, see below.
You cannot get this done now, and you will not need at home help just because of not bending , twisting at the waist.
Sharran FNP
Message from Anne T Bassen, sent February 6 at 2:03 PM
A
You
Feb 6, 2:03 PM
@annie1 I'm so sorry they are not taking the time to address your concerns and I understand why that upsets you. They have to be careful how they answer you because of insurance and legal issues and they don't want to promise something that wouldn't be covered by insurance. I don't know how big your incision will be for minimally invasive surgery or how many incisions they will need. It may be an easier recovery than most lumbar procedures, but I don't have experience there. My surgery was not minimally invasive, and a fusion has a longer recovery time. My incision was about 3 inches.
I think it is reasonable to ask a surgeon to see you before the procedure for a few minutes. My surgeon at Mayo did that for me and I was much calmer because of it. Is this surgeon rushing to get through too many cases in a day? I want to know that a surgeon who cuts on me is calm and unhurried. It takes a couple of minutes to say hello and reassure a patient that you are in charge and concerned about their well being. It is hard to be a patient facing fears and get no compassion from providers. My surgeon's nurse held my hand in the operating room.
I know this is a difficult time for you, and this doesn't make it easy to trust your surgical team. I fired a surgeon like that, but he wasn't going to help me anyway because he didn't really understand the diagnosis and didn't take enough time to even know that. He spent 5 minutes at the most in the consultation and wouldn't answer questions having looked at my imaging without me. Well, no thank you. You have to do what you think is right for you. If you want to call Mayo tomorrow and ask about care there, you can do that if that is a feasible option for you as in insurance and wait time, etc.
Is this non-communication causing anxiety for you? Only you know how much pain and disability you live with now and if you had to wait for a different surgeon, would you be able to do that?
I know how hard this is, and what it is like to deal with a nurse like that. One surgeon's nurse refused to make appointments for me with the surgeon because they didn't believe my symptoms were connected to my spine problem, and this was a big head of department at a major medical center making this mistake. I had to look elsewhere. It took me 2 years and seeing 5 surgeons wasting my time before I came to Mayo.
What do you want to do? Is this surgeon highly recommended to you by your private physician? Have you checked out his background and reputation? Any disciplinary actions against him with your state's regulatory medical board? I don't want to give you more to worry about, but it makes me worry to hear these things about a surgeon. You have to hire the surgeon you trust and who offers you the best solution. FYI, you should still be able to edit your post now if you wanted to remove your name from it.
Jennifer
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