What to expect next?

Posted by pattyp46 @pattyp46, Dec 9 12:16pm

I just finished 28 treatments of radiation therapy and have been on Orgovyx for 4 months. My psa will be tested next week by my urologist. Had an 8 Gleason score (4+4)and psa was 17 but PET scan showed no metastatic growth beyond the prostate. My psa had hovered between 3 and 5.5 for well over 10 years until last spring.
What should I expect?

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Your PSA Will be very low, May even be undetectable in the < .1 range. Results of radiation very a lot. The PSA doesn’t always go down right away because they radiation takes a little while to kill what it’s already disabled. Some people reach a very low number not necessarily undetectable, but it is their minimum after radiation. I’ve heard about it taking as much as three years for the PSA to reach rock bottom.

My case was a little different, 3.5 Years after my 2010 prostatectomy I had 35+ doses of IMRT, my PSA went to < .1 And stayed there for 2 1/2 years, without ADT. When it Rose again I went on Lupron.

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Thanks for the response! I’m 78, 5-10, 170 lbs and have exercised daily for 13 years, so pretty good health. Other than some inflammation from arthritis I’m pretty healthy. I eat lots of salads and little red meat.

FYI-I’ve read about some keto diet/glucosamine therapy that starves cancer cells if done properly but this is very new I think. PhD from Boston College is developing this.
Of course, no sugar or carbs with this treatment. I don’t know if it has been peer reviewed either.

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@pattyp46

Thanks for the response! I’m 78, 5-10, 170 lbs and have exercised daily for 13 years, so pretty good health. Other than some inflammation from arthritis I’m pretty healthy. I eat lots of salads and little red meat.

FYI-I’ve read about some keto diet/glucosamine therapy that starves cancer cells if done properly but this is very new I think. PhD from Boston College is developing this.
Of course, no sugar or carbs with this treatment. I don’t know if it has been peer reviewed either.

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Unfortunately, to date there is NO medical evidence or double blind studies showing that sugar or carbs can ‘feed’ cancer cells or make them grow - none!!
No matter what you do your own body will produce glucose through different means and if that is scarce will burn fats - and even muscle in starvation - to stay alive.
Cancer cells are even better at metabolizing different substrates to survive. A cancer researcher told me that she’s seen some cancer cells actually use the chemo and immuno agents to grow!! She said that some of the older, really harsh agents derived from mustard gas, etc really still work the best - but they take their toll on the healthy cells as well.
You will find tens of thousands of websites - some even from respected hospitals - perpetuating this sugar/cancer connection, but if you read them closely they are all just identical copies of an article or hypothesis written 50 years ago!

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@heavyphil

Unfortunately, to date there is NO medical evidence or double blind studies showing that sugar or carbs can ‘feed’ cancer cells or make them grow - none!!
No matter what you do your own body will produce glucose through different means and if that is scarce will burn fats - and even muscle in starvation - to stay alive.
Cancer cells are even better at metabolizing different substrates to survive. A cancer researcher told me that she’s seen some cancer cells actually use the chemo and immuno agents to grow!! She said that some of the older, really harsh agents derived from mustard gas, etc really still work the best - but they take their toll on the healthy cells as well.
You will find tens of thousands of websites - some even from respected hospitals - perpetuating this sugar/cancer connection, but if you read them closely they are all just identical copies of an article or hypothesis written 50 years ago!

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"Unfortunately, to date there is NO medical evidence or double blind studies showing that sugar or carbs can ‘feed’ cancer cells or make them grow - none!!"

That's not entirely correct. They did a pretty deep study on this to find that sugar had zero impact whatsoever on cancer cells. I found the actual study after my trainer mentioned this same myth.

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@survivor5280

"Unfortunately, to date there is NO medical evidence or double blind studies showing that sugar or carbs can ‘feed’ cancer cells or make them grow - none!!"

That's not entirely correct. They did a pretty deep study on this to find that sugar had zero impact whatsoever on cancer cells. I found the actual study after my trainer mentioned this same myth.

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I’m not so sure your comments about sugar really are accurate. There are three different articles that seem to be saying the opposite.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6123266/
https://www.pcf.org/c/prostate-cancers-sweet-tooth/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7811566/

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@jeffmarc

I’m not so sure your comments about sugar really are accurate. There are three different articles that seem to be saying the opposite.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6123266/
https://www.pcf.org/c/prostate-cancers-sweet-tooth/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7811566/

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Jeff, notice it’s for the HIGHEST concentration of sugar - and it’s derived from sodas. High fructose corn sugar is NOT plain old sugar and soda and diet sodas are implicated in a variety of disease states.
Anything - carbs, sugars, fats, salt and protein - consumed in excess can cause or aggravate disease; so can vitamins, supplements (remember the selenium and Vit E that was supposed to prevent prostate cancer? It increased it!), and certain chemicals and preservatives.
My basic point is that, IN MODERATION,( a term which no human today seems to be able to understand), all the things I mentioned above will not cause or exacerbate cancer.
Asbestos, BPA, tri-chlor and other known carcinogens ‘may’ under the right genetic circumstances.
My father died from mesothelioma at 72 (asbestos in shipyard), but my mother, who smoked 3 packs of Marlboro every day from when she was a teen, died from Covid at age 98! Where is her lung cancer, heart disease, COPD and all the other crap caused by cigarettes?? Her doctor said she did not have the genetic ‘initiator’ in her body that causes smoke tar to become carcinogenic.
A recent NYT article did a 20 page story on different cancers and came to the same conclusion: cancer needs the perfect conditions of carcinogen, initiator, immune response and exposure. It’s like when an airline crashes - there’s no ONE causative factor, but the perfect storm of several that are responsible.
Given that mix of ingredients, It’s a wonder ANY of us get it! But sadly we do and there’s simply no way (right now) to do anything about it.
So for me, I say have that cookie or two or that small slice of your favorite pie….hell, put ice cream on top…..just don’t have it EVERY day…

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@heavyphil

Jeff, notice it’s for the HIGHEST concentration of sugar - and it’s derived from sodas. High fructose corn sugar is NOT plain old sugar and soda and diet sodas are implicated in a variety of disease states.
Anything - carbs, sugars, fats, salt and protein - consumed in excess can cause or aggravate disease; so can vitamins, supplements (remember the selenium and Vit E that was supposed to prevent prostate cancer? It increased it!), and certain chemicals and preservatives.
My basic point is that, IN MODERATION,( a term which no human today seems to be able to understand), all the things I mentioned above will not cause or exacerbate cancer.
Asbestos, BPA, tri-chlor and other known carcinogens ‘may’ under the right genetic circumstances.
My father died from mesothelioma at 72 (asbestos in shipyard), but my mother, who smoked 3 packs of Marlboro every day from when she was a teen, died from Covid at age 98! Where is her lung cancer, heart disease, COPD and all the other crap caused by cigarettes?? Her doctor said she did not have the genetic ‘initiator’ in her body that causes smoke tar to become carcinogenic.
A recent NYT article did a 20 page story on different cancers and came to the same conclusion: cancer needs the perfect conditions of carcinogen, initiator, immune response and exposure. It’s like when an airline crashes - there’s no ONE causative factor, but the perfect storm of several that are responsible.
Given that mix of ingredients, It’s a wonder ANY of us get it! But sadly we do and there’s simply no way (right now) to do anything about it.
So for me, I say have that cookie or two or that small slice of your favorite pie….hell, put ice cream on top…..just don’t have it EVERY day…

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I agree that in moderation sugar doesn’t cause any problems. I eat a small piece of cake or cookie every night along with strawberries. That is really the only concentrated sugar I eat all day. The small amount I eat at night has no effect on my PSA, Which is exactly what you’re talking about.

I also watch my A1c and my last one was 5.4. That also requires limiting carbs. I used to eat a big sub sandwich at lunch, I now eat a big salad. In the morning, I eat high protein cereal without sugar in it, it uses monk fruit to sweeten.

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"I eat a small piece of cake or cookie every night along with strawberries"

I'm jealous! I'm strictly monitoring every single gram of everything to ensure the best possible health by the time of surgery. Not only to make it easier for the surgeon, but to apply anything I possibly can to a positive outcome for ED and incontinence. So, no desserts for this guy on a regular basis - but I will splurge at Christmas for some pie because I'm not a monster 😂.

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Survivor, been there, done that, tried the Spartan way of life before surgery….HA!!
Totally impotent, but not incontinent. PNI was present bigtime and I told the surgeon to take everything OUT if he had to…..he had to.
But you don’t have that so you should be fine….eat the cake!😋

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@heavyphil

Survivor, been there, done that, tried the Spartan way of life before surgery….HA!!
Totally impotent, but not incontinent. PNI was present bigtime and I told the surgeon to take everything OUT if he had to…..he had to.
But you don’t have that so you should be fine….eat the cake!😋

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Here’s the video, there are several-

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