Pathology during RALP procedure?

Posted by animate @animate, 2 days ago

Hello,

I am undecided between two Urologists to perform my RALP procedure. One of them explained to me that during the procedure he removes a very thin layer of nerve tissue and sends it to the hospital pathology lab, who are standing-by for this, for them to analyze it microscopically, to have them identify if it has any signs of being affected by the cancer tumor or if it is clean. He mentioned that if the lab reports back that they did find that the tissue has been affected, he then removes another layer and sends it again for analysis. He keeps doing this until the lab reports that the tissue is clean, so that he can determine how far he needs to remove the safe margins.

From all the research I have done, I have never found that this is usually done as part of the regular RALP procedure and my thought is that either he is a very good and experienced doctor in order to go through these sophisticated steps, or he is just simply fabricating this to convince me that he is my best option.

Has anyone heard about this practice or do you know if this was actually part of your RALP procedure?

The other Urologist that I met told me that he does not do this and he just determines the safe margins from what he observes during the procedure.

I will appreciate any comments.
Thank you.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

https://www.renalandurologynews.com/features/neurosafe-technique-for-radical-prostatectomy/
I don't have an opinion on the procedure, but he isn't fabricating.
Best wishes for your surgery.

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No, he is not fabricating and in the perfect world all cancer surgeries would be done this meticulously. Kudos to him !!! I heard about that possibility but never heard of doctor actually doing that. He must be naturally a perfectionist. Lucky you 👍.

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Someone in my family had this done while the surgeon was removing a large melanoma from his back. Kept cutting until the margins were clean. Probably saved his patients life. So yes, some surgeons do this.

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One of our friends is a pathologist that works at a hospital and analyzes tissue that is brought in while surgery is going on, to make sure that the margins are clear.

They’ve been doing that at this hospital for decades. It is the best way to get clean margins.

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Thank you very much for your responses. I researched the NeuroSafe technique and it is definitely not available in my area, so this is certainly not what this Doctor is using.

Again, from all my research, I have not read of this practice as something performed regularly, specifically during a RALP procedure, which makes me a bit doubtful. More so, because the Doctor is not quoting any additional cost to the procedure, which I would imagine that this would have to generate an additional cost due to more time required and the pathology lab involvement.

@jeffmarc , do you know if your pathologist friend does this specifically on RALP procedures or would it maybe be for other type of cancer surgeries?

Thank you.

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Profile picture for animate @animate

Thank you very much for your responses. I researched the NeuroSafe technique and it is definitely not available in my area, so this is certainly not what this Doctor is using.

Again, from all my research, I have not read of this practice as something performed regularly, specifically during a RALP procedure, which makes me a bit doubtful. More so, because the Doctor is not quoting any additional cost to the procedure, which I would imagine that this would have to generate an additional cost due to more time required and the pathology lab involvement.

@jeffmarc , do you know if your pathologist friend does this specifically on RALP procedures or would it maybe be for other type of cancer surgeries?

Thank you.

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He did it for all different types of surgery. He retired a couple of years ago,

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I had a median lobe growing into my bladder that my surgeon found during my RALP. He would cut then send tissue to pathology, they sent back to him that it was prostate tissue, he cut some more and sent that, came back bladder muscle tissue, he then cut a bit more and sent it to confirm. I was glad he did this during the surgery as to not leave any prostate tissue that could produce PSA. We never talked about this prior to surgery. I know this wasn't for nerve sparing but he had pathology on standby during my surgery. Didn't cost a dime extra.

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This was standard operating procedure for decades whenever any kind of cancer surgery was done and not just on nerve bundles. It used to be called a ‘frozen section’ but I am sure some PR whiz has come up with something better to fit in with our sleek, acronym infested lives.
If a surgeon says that he does this it shows an extra measure of care; whether he actually does it or not is anyone’s guess…
You could access the post surgical pathology report and see if there were multiple steps of scrutiny just to be sure.
Phil

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

This was standard operating procedure for decades whenever any kind of cancer surgery was done and not just on nerve bundles. It used to be called a ‘frozen section’ but I am sure some PR whiz has come up with something better to fit in with our sleek, acronym infested lives.
If a surgeon says that he does this it shows an extra measure of care; whether he actually does it or not is anyone’s guess…
You could access the post surgical pathology report and see if there were multiple steps of scrutiny just to be sure.
Phil

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True, I would have never known but it was on my post surgical pathology report as 3 frozen sections along with the times they were sent. I think my surgeon may have been removing lymph nodes while waiting but he got the results very quickly. He proceeded with surgery after lab gave him the all clear. it was all documented and Mayo has a great portal that allows access to all of your records

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My surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic had a sample tested during my RARP to help ensure negative margins after my pre-op MRI revealed an extraprostatic extension. The pathology report just called it an "Intraoperative Diagnosis."

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