Modern medicine and reality.

@aaronhurts
Does your bloodwork show inflammation or elevated white blood cells showing infection? I have not heard of antibiotics helping with pain but I guess if there is an infection in a joint following orthopedic surgery, it could help. Have you been tested for post op infection?

Yes, full round of tests for infection including white cell nuclear test. Two surgeons say there is no infection. I’m not surprised that you haven’t heard of antibiotic’s effects on pain and inflammation. I think it’s a well kept secret. Last go-round on amoxicillin was 31 days, and complete resolution of pain, fully restored function. I was biking, hiking and running on my elliptical machine. I had 28 great days of activity. Then the pain and inflammation returned with a vengeance. The prior event was only 17 days on amoxicillin and I got 3 weeks during which time we went to Europe and had a blast. I told the second surgeon two days ago when I saw him for the second opinion, “I won’t got to Italy like a cripple. I will cobble together my amoxicillin and do a round to get set straight before I go?” He asked when I am going…

aaronhurts, Antibiotics help me with pain also. Antibiotics not only reduce infection, but, inflammation as well.
I hardly hurt with my maladies when I am on antibiotics for a sinus infection or bronchitis. You can't live on
antibiotics for sure,but, I believe you. I also feel the best when I am on prednisone, BUT, I know the horrific
side effects of that as well. A short taper of prednisone and I have energy, hardly any migraines and my pain all over is almost completely gone. It's a miracle medication for me,

Have you been to a rheumatologist for a full blood workup? I'm wondering if you have an underlying autoimmune disease. If you have an underlying infection, it would show up in bloodwork. Also, if you have had COVID, it can increase inflammation, which causes more pain with some folks that have pre-existing issues. I battle long COVID which escalated my pain.

Praying for you. I am so sorry you are suffering with this. Blessings & Prayers....

Thanks for that. Good advice and thoughts and prayers. I’ll take it all. I will see my GP tomorrow and start down the pain management road including rheumatologist. I had Covid twice, and guess what, the second time was during my hip replacement. I had a fever in the hospital and my antibiotic drip fell out. The nurse couldn’t put it back in and I had to wait 7hrs for the next nurse. I feel for you with all you got going on. I hope you can find some relief and get some joy in your days,

Dear Aaronhurts: I appreciate your post re persistent pain. It is a really frustrating issue, as is the issue of inflammation!!! I eat a ton of blueberries and strawberries (and other foods that help inflammation) in an effort to stem the tide, but it is all a 'shot in the dark' so to speak. I wish you the very best of luck getting to the source of your pain, and finding a cure. d.

I understand the constant pain. I had TKA four years ago. The first year was ok as I was busy with P/T and healing so I expected it. Now after all of these years and doing everything possible, I am thinking I may have sensitivity to the metal implants. My surgeon won’t see me any longer. I wonder if a rheumatologist could give me a diagnosis. I understand the crippling aspect to what was supposed to keep quality of life good. My life too has deteriorated. I have twice asked to bee seen at Mayo and was turned down. My bar is low as well. I hope your story can improve.

Hjhd
I told my surgeon that my last thoughts as I lay down on the operating table was my right front tooth. It is an implant, the third I’ve had. The first ones were unliked by my gums. The gums receded and were inflamed, and somewhat painful. I told him I was thinking about how my body doesn’t like foreign stuff. That said, I have a Physio Ring in my heart from a Mitral Valve repair years back. I get pain sometimes, but overall, I am alive and my valve is working better. So, what you write about “sensitivity to metal” I hear loudly. Your situation stinks as bad as mine. Maybe worse as your doctors have abandoned you. I am going to see an infection specialist and then a rheumatologist. Also seeing a chiropractor regularly and I plan to try acupuncture. Tomorrow I go to PT and they have some voodoo gizmo recommended by the surgeon. And Saturday I see a Naturopathic Doctor. I’m trying everything.

Hi Aaron,

First of all, I'm sorry for the pain you're in.

As far as antibiotics as pain killers, do you know the mechanism by which these work? I've never heard of it. What is your prescribing Dr's recommendation/explanation.

Thanks Aaron.

Joe

hey joe

Thanks.

As far as the "mechanism" this is in fact "THE" question. I posed this to my surgeon and got silence. No answer. He clammed up. After an uncomfortable silence he moved on to other details.

This leaves us to figure it out on our own, and to postulate openly would only invite ridicule from the medical industrial complex. We are not biochemists.

On a conspiratorial note, I suspect it's a well kept secret in the medical echelons. If everyone knew what could be achieved, then everyone would want it and the human race would suffer a terrible decline down the road as so many people would become walking MRSA incubators and humanity would loose the benefit of antibiotics.

Ok. I will postulate, so I invite doctors to hurl insults at me. I think that my soft tissue doesn't like foreign items at the party, so I get inflammation. And somehow inflammation caused by this particular problem can in fact be greatly reduced with antibiotics.

Something down there in miniature land is put to sleep with anty- b's and then inflammation disappears.

I don't think my idea will be published. LOL

Actually, we do know that SOME antibiotics have anti-inflammatory properties as well. And it is that which provides you pain relief. Inflammation and infection are 2 different mechanisms, so it has been a surprise to the research community. And it is not universal - an antibiotic that helps with lung inflammation may or may not help with other types like orthopedic or nerve pain. More work is being done on the subject - trying to figure out which property of the antibiotic they might be able to replicate as a pain med instead of using and compromising the primary effectiveness of the entire drug for its intended use.

Also, as you mentioned, with wider use of antibiotics for off-label purposes, there is a very high probability of creating even more superbugs, so in most cases docs will not prescribe them that way, except as a last resort.

What makes decision even harder is that the most effective antibiotics at relieving pain are the "big guns" doctors save for hard to treat infections - if they lose antibiotic effectiveness we're in trouble Also, long-term use of many antibiotics have their own terrible side effects. They attack the gut biome causing digestive issues, and can affect hearing, vision, kidneys, liver, even the heart. They were never tested or labeled for long-term use as pain medication so many of these problems only become apparent when it is too late.

So your idea is being studied, and will eventually be published, if those two issues can be worked out. This is why even a new use for an old drug must often undergo several rounds of lab, animal and human testing before it is approved.