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Lymph Nodes why take them out!
An interesting article I read discussed the removal of lymph nodes during cancer surgery, and the negative aspects of doing it.
"Lymph nodes aren't just passive waiting rooms for immune cells, they actively train and educate T cells, and send them off to do their job," said Professor Axel Kallies, PhD, Laboratory Head at the Doherty Institute and the corresponding author on both studies. "Our research suggests that removing lymph nodes during cancer surgery, a common practice to prevent tumor spread, may inadvertently reduce the effectiveness of treatments, such as checkpoint blockade and CAR T cell therapies. Preserving lymph nodes could strengthen immune responses and increase the effectiveness of immunotherapy."
But what are lymph nodes, and what do they do?
Lymph nodes are small, bean-shaped organs scattered throughout the body that act as checkpoints of the immune system. They filter lymph fluid, which drains from tissues, trapping and destroying germs, cancer cells, and other harmful material. Inside, lymph nodes are packed with immune cells like T cells, B cells, and dendritic cells that communicate, train, and multiply in response to threats.
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I would not define them as "organs" though lol, they are just small depots along lymphatic system with that specific function - cleaning lymph from harmful particles and having white blood cell "cops" checking for intruders (inclooding cancer cells) and also some white blood cells making inventory of all previous intruders, and forming robust immune response. Yes, it is better not to touch them if not necessary - absolutely !
@surftohealth88
Yes, lymph nodes are organs; specifically, they are secondary lymphoid organs that are part of the lymphatic system, a network of vessels and organs that filters lymph fluid, traps bacteria, and activates the immune system to fight off infection.
so wonder what the thought is on radiating the lymph nodes ?? should they be irradiated like the prostate- try to save it, but kill the cancer..? or just blast them with focused radiation ?? I have 2 pelvic lymph nodes involved..my latest MRI indicates the ORGOVYX has shrunk them a bit .. (only 2 months of ADt)...
As I heard Dr Scholz on his podcast discuss, the number of lymph nodes involved does affect treatment options and outcomes- the fewer the better.
I believe he said if you have fewer than 5 nodes ( localized/regional pelvic area) involved, it is possible to achieve a cure but distant metastis , probably not, but can be controlled.
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1 Reaction@jeffmarc
Interesting, when I was studying biology and human and animal anatomy and physiology they definitely did not have designation of an "organ". They are not even separate entities but part of a lymphatic system - just enlarged vesicles of the lymphatic ducts. That way appendix could be an "organ" too. But maybe there is difference in translation or methodology of anatomical classification between texts.
@xahnegrey40
Unfortunately sometimes our immune system fails and stops recognizing and eliminating cancer cells. Than cancer cells find a safe harbor in nodes and dwell there and use lymphatic system to spread further up-stream (in case of the PC). For that reason they should be zapped - to kill cancer that is inhabiting them. During surgery many nodes are removed just to be checked for cancer and often they are not so in that case they are "wasted" . I think that that was the reasoning in previous post regarding removing them during surgery. BUT, I might be wrong - if they suggested for cancer invaded nodes to STAY, than I would be totally shocked 😵💫
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1 Reaction@surftohealth88 no, I agree with you..I want the ( MALIGNANT) lymph nodes destroyed...I think my immune system worked pretty well in keeping just 2 'nodes involved...the PET scan and MRI detected nothing elsewhere ( hopefully nothing will show up later)
but certainly, the medical community dropped the ball for 10 yrs by saying older men DID NOT need PSA or DRE after 65 or so..I remember asking if I was gonna get either and docs said " no, you dont need that anymore" so imagine my surprsie when I found PC was cooking for 3 yrs or so AFTER my PSA test in May '25 CAME BACK AT 48...!!!
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1 Reaction@surftohealth88
I searched on the web for “are lymph nodes organs” and it came up, saying they are organs. I pasted in the portion that mentioned they are.
Got to admit they are pretty small organs.
Do the same search and let me know if you find something different.
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1 ReactionCurrently receiving SBRT and had one equivocal external iliac lymph node on PSMA-PET imaging. It is not enlarged on MRI imaging. The Radiation Oncologist is including the node in the total radiation field to cover the possibility of it being a regional spread of the cancer. Thankfully the PSMA scan showed no distant metastases.
@jeffmarc
It is not an organ - here is simplified explanation by AI what an organ is :
An organ is a specialized structure in living organisms that consists of multiple tissues working together to perform a specific function. It is a complex unit of the body that carries out essential physiological tasks.
Key Characteristics of Organs:
Composed of multiple tissue types
Performs a specific function
Contributes to the overall functioning of an organ system
Has a defined structure and location within the body
Examples of organs include the heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, and brain.
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We were thought that organ has its own blood supply (arteries and veins ), it's own singular function and very specific anatomy comprising of multiple cellular layers of differentiated tissue. For example heart is made of outside cover membrane layer named pericardium, than comes thick layer of muscle myocardium, than inside epithelial tissue endocardium. Hart has it's own innervation, it's own blood circulation etc etc. Very distinct "organ". Upon reading what is said on the net about lymphatic system it seems that somehow parts of lymphatic system they named "organs" . While spleen is an organ I have no idea how "nodes " came into play .
Nodes are part of lymphatic system like capillaries are part of circulatory system - we can not call capillaries "organs". This site explains the best lymphatic system and correctly calls nodes "structures" .
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/23131-lymph-nodes
But again, maybe USA textbooks use "organ" term more broadly, I can not attest to that.
@surftohealth88
I see what you are saying but all searches say organ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph_node
If you do a search “are lymph nodes organs” there are many references saying they are. Maybe the whole lymphatic system are considered an organ and that is why they are called that.