Lumbar Spinal Stenosis---surgery questions

Posted by northstar25 @northstar25, Jul 31 3:52pm

I have L4 & L5 advanced spinal canal stenosis, grade 1 anterolisthesis of L4 &L5. Also Grade 1 degenerative spondylolisthesis. This was diagnosed by MRI. The clinic I am seeing wants to do lumbar fusion. I am worried that if I go through with this, I will be worse off than now (if that is possible). I have heard stories about people who have regretted having fusion. They go in through the abdomen, move some stuff around, then flip you over on your stomach, go in through the back to put the hardware in. Anyone have any experience with this surgery? Please advise!! I need help fast!!

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@northstar25
I can empathize. I have the same as you and had surgery to decompress and fuse L3-L5. My surgery helped me reduce back pain and weakness/numbness down to my feet. My L4 was also slipping over L5 and this level was totally blocked (causing neurogenic claudication).

For my surgery, they went through the back only. They had to remove discs, cut away arthritic bone that was compressing my spinal cord and nerve roots, put in disc spacers and hardware. It was a really painful surgery and 3-6+ month recovery (takes a full year to see the full effect of surgery and reduction of symptoms). I am in my mid 50s and had 2 cervical spine ACDF surgeries and 1 lumbar open surgery.

Did they say why they would go through your stomach and back and why they couldn’t just go through your back? You should get a couple more opinions from reputable and highly reviewed/rated surgeons before picking one. My 4th orthopedic spine specialist surgeon is who I chose to do all 3 surgeries.

How long have you been suffering? Did you try physical therapy and steroid injections?

REPLY

I have severe L4/5 stenosis. I have avoided surgery and cleared up my sciatica symptoms by following the Gokhale Primal Posture Method.

REPLY
Profile picture for dlydailyhope @dlydailyhope

@northstar25
I can empathize. I have the same as you and had surgery to decompress and fuse L3-L5. My surgery helped me reduce back pain and weakness/numbness down to my feet. My L4 was also slipping over L5 and this level was totally blocked (causing neurogenic claudication).

For my surgery, they went through the back only. They had to remove discs, cut away arthritic bone that was compressing my spinal cord and nerve roots, put in disc spacers and hardware. It was a really painful surgery and 3-6+ month recovery (takes a full year to see the full effect of surgery and reduction of symptoms). I am in my mid 50s and had 2 cervical spine ACDF surgeries and 1 lumbar open surgery.

Did they say why they would go through your stomach and back and why they couldn’t just go through your back? You should get a couple more opinions from reputable and highly reviewed/rated surgeons before picking one. My 4th orthopedic spine specialist surgeon is who I chose to do all 3 surgeries.

How long have you been suffering? Did you try physical therapy and steroid injections?

Jump to this post

Thank you for your comment! I am 72 in a couple weeks. I am going to ask why they have to go through my stomach first---I haven't been able to see on youtube or other places where they actually do this. Seems risky to me. I did 2 cortisone injections which worked for a few weeks--one at end of March and the other June 18. Also did Physical Therapy where the guy gave me some exercises to do, which I try to do as much as my back pain will allow. Also doing Advil in am & pm, and wear an 'ice belt' when I go to bed. I have arthritis which doesn't help, and the surgery won't help that. This condition has been going on for some time, but getting worse since late last year. Thought it was just sciatica, but then had the MRI and that's when they discovered the spinal stenosis, spondylolisthesis, and a vertebrae that was slipped forward. Yes, I am trying to get 2nd opinion, primarily from Mayo in Rochester as that's where I was born and still have a brother there :). Evidently there is a 'triage system' they use there to review one's medical records, and then schedule appointments. Would like to get an appt asap. The clinic where I may have to get the surgery done is close by my home but smaller, and I just don't know----this is a serious surgery and I can't afford to have any mistakes!!

REPLY

I’m so sorry to hear about what you’re going through. I’ve had two extensive Lumbar Spine Laminectomies and Fusions, plus spacers and rods. I only have one Lumbar disc yet to be operated on, plus a lot more up my spine, but you get the point.

The first thing I would tell you is that I’ve interviewed orthopoedic surgeons and neurosurgeons for my surgeries and I would always choose a highly-regarded neurosurgeon over a highly regarded orthopoedic surgeons. There are two reasons for this: 1) Am orthopoedic surgeons is more highly trained in matters pertaining to your spinal chord and central nervous system - where there is the most risk in an operation on your spine, and 2). A neurosurgeon has much more extensive and intricate training. If a neurosurgeon, heart surgeon and orthopedic surgeon are in an operating room together, the neurosurgeon is always the leader for just this reason.

Next, I’d want to know if your lumbar spine pain is affecting the functioning of your arms, legs, or other parts of your body outside of your spine. My neurosurgeon decided to operate on me the first time because my right leg/hip wasn’t functioning and made if difficult to impossible to walk, depending on the day. My second surgery took place only after my right leg and hip made had me limping severely and my right glut was in non-stop spasm. I’m not a doctor, but I do know that my neurosurgeon (and many others) do not operate on people with back pain alone. (I believe one-third of adults in the US report back pain.). I’d still see a neurologist associated with a practice that includes one, or more neurosurgeons. My bet is, though, that they’ll prescribe alternate, non-surgical forms of treatment.

One more note: please be cautious about neurologists, surgeons, or pain management doctors who prescribe opioid-based pain meds any more than short-term (30-60 days). Even if you’re awaiting surgery, opt for non-opioid spinal injections first. They can be remarkably helpful.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

REPLY
Profile picture for dlydailyhope @dlydailyhope

@northstar25
I can empathize. I have the same as you and had surgery to decompress and fuse L3-L5. My surgery helped me reduce back pain and weakness/numbness down to my feet. My L4 was also slipping over L5 and this level was totally blocked (causing neurogenic claudication).

For my surgery, they went through the back only. They had to remove discs, cut away arthritic bone that was compressing my spinal cord and nerve roots, put in disc spacers and hardware. It was a really painful surgery and 3-6+ month recovery (takes a full year to see the full effect of surgery and reduction of symptoms). I am in my mid 50s and had 2 cervical spine ACDF surgeries and 1 lumbar open surgery.

Did they say why they would go through your stomach and back and why they couldn’t just go through your back? You should get a couple more opinions from reputable and highly reviewed/rated surgeons before picking one. My 4th orthopedic spine specialist surgeon is who I chose to do all 3 surgeries.

How long have you been suffering? Did you try physical therapy and steroid injections?

Jump to this post

Hope this is helpful. I am retired operating room scrub nurse. By going through the abdomen and securing the spine is what we called a “360.” My guess is that your spine needs much stabilization. Here is what I found on the Internet for you to help you understand: A 360 lumbar fusion, also known as an anterior/posterior lumbar fusion or circumferential fusion, is a surgical procedure that stabilizes the spine by fusing vertebrae from both the front (anterior) and back (posterior) of the spine. This approach is often used for patients with significant spinal issues like degenerative disc disease, spondylolisthesis, or spinal deformities.
Hope this helps.

REPLY
Profile picture for wudalife2 - Walt Freese @wudalife2

I’m so sorry to hear about what you’re going through. I’ve had two extensive Lumbar Spine Laminectomies and Fusions, plus spacers and rods. I only have one Lumbar disc yet to be operated on, plus a lot more up my spine, but you get the point.

The first thing I would tell you is that I’ve interviewed orthopoedic surgeons and neurosurgeons for my surgeries and I would always choose a highly-regarded neurosurgeon over a highly regarded orthopoedic surgeons. There are two reasons for this: 1) Am orthopoedic surgeons is more highly trained in matters pertaining to your spinal chord and central nervous system - where there is the most risk in an operation on your spine, and 2). A neurosurgeon has much more extensive and intricate training. If a neurosurgeon, heart surgeon and orthopedic surgeon are in an operating room together, the neurosurgeon is always the leader for just this reason.

Next, I’d want to know if your lumbar spine pain is affecting the functioning of your arms, legs, or other parts of your body outside of your spine. My neurosurgeon decided to operate on me the first time because my right leg/hip wasn’t functioning and made if difficult to impossible to walk, depending on the day. My second surgery took place only after my right leg and hip made had me limping severely and my right glut was in non-stop spasm. I’m not a doctor, but I do know that my neurosurgeon (and many others) do not operate on people with back pain alone. (I believe one-third of adults in the US report back pain.). I’d still see a neurologist associated with a practice that includes one, or more neurosurgeons. My bet is, though, that they’ll prescribe alternate, non-surgical forms of treatment.

One more note: please be cautious about neurologists, surgeons, or pain management doctors who prescribe opioid-based pain meds any more than short-term (30-60 days). Even if you’re awaiting surgery, opt for non-opioid spinal injections first. They can be remarkably helpful.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

Jump to this post

What a helpful, informative reply, Wudalife2! I wish I had known all of that when I had lower back pain. Thank you!

REPLY
Profile picture for busylady @busylady

Hope this is helpful. I am retired operating room scrub nurse. By going through the abdomen and securing the spine is what we called a “360.” My guess is that your spine needs much stabilization. Here is what I found on the Internet for you to help you understand: A 360 lumbar fusion, also known as an anterior/posterior lumbar fusion or circumferential fusion, is a surgical procedure that stabilizes the spine by fusing vertebrae from both the front (anterior) and back (posterior) of the spine. This approach is often used for patients with significant spinal issues like degenerative disc disease, spondylolisthesis, or spinal deformities.
Hope this helps.

Jump to this post

Is the 360 lumbar fusion also used to repair Scoliosis? Do you know or have you heard any feedback on Scoliosis curve with a severe rotation in the trunk area ? Once the scoliosis Curve is repaired Does a trunk rotation D rotate at all ?
Is the 360 lumbar fusion also known as a LLIF Lateral Lumbar Interbody Fusion ? I've had this done on L3 L4 & L4 L5 I have a kyphoplasty in L2 that was crushed after the kyphoplasty can this be bridged over to fuse up to T9 T 10 & T11 from the L3 L4 fusion ? ? ?
Also, I have been In a review. With Mayo, Arizona for the Scoliosis repair for approximately seven weeks. I understand it’s very difficult to get a surgeon to perform this procedure as it takes up to eight hours and sometimes more.. I can’t help, but wonder if the rotation in the trunk is going to increase the curve put pressure on the lungs from the ribs the longer it takes to get it repaired ?

I need this procedure done sooner rather than later !!!

Any Suggestions?

Thank you in advance for any replies ~

REPLY
Profile picture for rwdixon4 @rwdixon4

Is the 360 lumbar fusion also used to repair Scoliosis? Do you know or have you heard any feedback on Scoliosis curve with a severe rotation in the trunk area ? Once the scoliosis Curve is repaired Does a trunk rotation D rotate at all ?
Is the 360 lumbar fusion also known as a LLIF Lateral Lumbar Interbody Fusion ? I've had this done on L3 L4 & L4 L5 I have a kyphoplasty in L2 that was crushed after the kyphoplasty can this be bridged over to fuse up to T9 T 10 & T11 from the L3 L4 fusion ? ? ?
Also, I have been In a review. With Mayo, Arizona for the Scoliosis repair for approximately seven weeks. I understand it’s very difficult to get a surgeon to perform this procedure as it takes up to eight hours and sometimes more.. I can’t help, but wonder if the rotation in the trunk is going to increase the curve put pressure on the lungs from the ribs the longer it takes to get it repaired ?

I need this procedure done sooner rather than later !!!

Any Suggestions?

Thank you in advance for any replies ~

Jump to this post

Oh my gosh, sounds like you have a lot going on here. I’m so sorry. I think you could probably direct all these questions to your surgeon. But yes, the 360 fusion can be used whenever the surgeon wants better stability for the spine. The decision to do a 360 fusion would be his call. 360s done at the hospital where I retired from usually required a general surgeon and an orthopedic or Neurosurgeon. The general surgeon would make an anbdodminal incision and dissect down to the spine, getting all the internal organs out way. Then either the orthopedic or neuro surgeon would do the fusion. Im really not qualified to answer all your questions here regarding outcomes of the different spine surgeries. I would recommend you sit down with your doctor and get all your questions answered before undergoing any surgery. All the best to you.

REPLY
Profile picture for wudalife2 - Walt Freese @wudalife2

I’m so sorry to hear about what you’re going through. I’ve had two extensive Lumbar Spine Laminectomies and Fusions, plus spacers and rods. I only have one Lumbar disc yet to be operated on, plus a lot more up my spine, but you get the point.

The first thing I would tell you is that I’ve interviewed orthopoedic surgeons and neurosurgeons for my surgeries and I would always choose a highly-regarded neurosurgeon over a highly regarded orthopoedic surgeons. There are two reasons for this: 1) Am orthopoedic surgeons is more highly trained in matters pertaining to your spinal chord and central nervous system - where there is the most risk in an operation on your spine, and 2). A neurosurgeon has much more extensive and intricate training. If a neurosurgeon, heart surgeon and orthopedic surgeon are in an operating room together, the neurosurgeon is always the leader for just this reason.

Next, I’d want to know if your lumbar spine pain is affecting the functioning of your arms, legs, or other parts of your body outside of your spine. My neurosurgeon decided to operate on me the first time because my right leg/hip wasn’t functioning and made if difficult to impossible to walk, depending on the day. My second surgery took place only after my right leg and hip made had me limping severely and my right glut was in non-stop spasm. I’m not a doctor, but I do know that my neurosurgeon (and many others) do not operate on people with back pain alone. (I believe one-third of adults in the US report back pain.). I’d still see a neurologist associated with a practice that includes one, or more neurosurgeons. My bet is, though, that they’ll prescribe alternate, non-surgical forms of treatment.

One more note: please be cautious about neurologists, surgeons, or pain management doctors who prescribe opioid-based pain meds any more than short-term (30-60 days). Even if you’re awaiting surgery, opt for non-opioid spinal injections first. They can be remarkably helpful.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

Jump to this post

Thanks Genie15. That info is helpful. I will only consider spinal fusion or laminectomy if I lose the ability to walk. I am 82 and can tolerate the pain. It lets me know I'm still alive. The neurosurgeon would be my only choice if and when I consider it . Your message sealed the choice for me. Best wishes to you.

REPLY
Profile picture for busylady @busylady

Hope this is helpful. I am retired operating room scrub nurse. By going through the abdomen and securing the spine is what we called a “360.” My guess is that your spine needs much stabilization. Here is what I found on the Internet for you to help you understand: A 360 lumbar fusion, also known as an anterior/posterior lumbar fusion or circumferential fusion, is a surgical procedure that stabilizes the spine by fusing vertebrae from both the front (anterior) and back (posterior) of the spine. This approach is often used for patients with significant spinal issues like degenerative disc disease, spondylolisthesis, or spinal deformities.
Hope this helps.

Jump to this post

Thank you for your reply and explanation! I do have spondylolisthesis (one of my vertebrae has slipped, as I understand it). The MRI report said 'advanced spinal canal stenosis, grade 1 anterolisthesis of L4 & L5. Recurrent disc herniation, adjacent segment disease, disc degeneration of severe foraminal stenosis.' So that's probably why they want to go in through the front, then 'flip me over' (the way the surgeon put it!) and go in through the back. Sounds scary to me!!

REPLY
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