How important is taking hormone blockers after surgery for IDC?

Posted by cadunkin @cadunkin, Sep 5, 2022

I’m 71 & diagnosed with IDC. The tumor was very small, clean margins & no lymph node involvement. After much research & discussion with my oncologist I am leaning toward 3 weeks of radiation & no hormone blocking drugs. I understand that there is more risk of cancer returning, but the difference in that risk doesn’t seem worth the side effects of the drugs. It’s important to me to remain active so the bone loss, joint pain & fatigue would greatly affect my quality of life. I would greatly appreciate all discussion on others that have made this decision & how they are doing. All of it is scary! Thanks much everyone.

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@sequoia

@vivi1 what was our ‘high estrogen count’? I’m trying to understand estrogen levels. TIA & blessings

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Sequoia, by "my high estrogen count" I meant the ER biomarker on my tumor pathology report was high. 98% of the cancer cells analyzed had estrogen receptors, which was termed "strong". This indicated that my tumor was sensitive to estrogen and that an anti-estrogen adjuvant treatment would be standard care, either by blocking estrogen from binding with the receptor, as with tamoxifen, or by reducing the amount of estrogen in the bloodstream with an inhibitor that prevents the enzyme aromatase from converting androgens to estrogen. Aromatase is found in the adrenal glands, fat, breasts, brain, and muscles. It seems logical that the higher the ER+ percentage, the higher the potential effectiveness of an estrogen blocker in lowering recurrence risk. I have never had my actual blood estrogen level measured.

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@cctoo

Can a CT scan see a tumor or mass?

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I assume so but am not very familiar with CT scans so someone else might opine on this with more information.

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@vivi1

I saw my radiologist today for a 10 month checkup. We discussed AI's and how most women (including me) do not want to take them. He advised me that lumpectomy with radiation puts an ER+ breast cancer woman back to the starting point. But, remember, we who have had BC have a hormone imbalance that caused breast cancer to begin with. Our odds of a new primary are higher than those who have not suffered our cancer. While research shows that radiation improves our risk of same breast, ipsilateral, recurrence, hormone blockers improve our risk against new primaries and metastatic cancer. So, it seems that we have some ability to effectively change our estrogen environment with diet and exercise, still, there is no validation that alternative measures will thwart recurrence, new primaries, and/or metastasis. In his own family, my radiologist said, his mother had BC twice after stopping endocrine therapy following a high grade DCIS diagnosis. She had an initial lumpectomy with radiation, then a mastectomy after recurrence, and more recently a second lumpectomy after a new primary in the remaining breast. We all have to weigh our personal risk and SEs vs benefit of taking these drugs. The same goes for radiation after early stage IDC and DCIS. I chose hyper-fractionated radiation over none, given my early stage IDC pathology; and tamoxifen then anastrozole over none given my high estrogen count. I know these are hard decisions for all of us!

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@vivi1 what was our ‘high estrogen count’? I’m trying to understand estrogen levels. TIA & blessings

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I also had IDC at 71 and had the lumpectomy and radiation. My oncologist then put me on Letrozole (aromotase therapy).
All I can tell you I’ve been taking it for a year and because the drug could affect my bones, I’m on prolia shots twice a year. It’s not something I’m happy about but I don’t have many annoying side effects from the drug, so I’ll probably stay on it for the 5 years. I’m more tired and have sweats and my hair is thinning a bit but that’s it. You may be lucky too.

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@cctoo

Can a CT scan see a tumor or mass?

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I used to know a girl in college whose name was Lois Calla...by chance would that be you?

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@callalloo

I'm sure that many of us have and will. To misquote whoever first said it decades ago, "We're all in this together alone."

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Can a CT scan see a tumor or mass?

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Side effects to hormonal drugs of all kinds, in my experience, change and often lessen over time. I think it might be helpful for those who can, to wait a couple of months at least before deciding to stop. I realize that for some this is just not possible. Hot flashes, in my experience, were the first to go away. Joint pain was greatly helped by walking 45 minutes- the first 20 hurt but after that things improved. My oncologist told me that many women had said the same.
Make sure to get your full Oncotype Dx report and read the whole thing!

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Callalloo,

Yes, indeed you do have it right. I did receive a more comprehensive treatment plan. My oncologist had told me to set an appointment to be seen in 6 months. I remember thinking I was a BC poster for "You Beat Cancer"
I may not have survived had I not had the OncotypeDX. Best $5k we ever spent. Prayers and Blessings to all, Lynne

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@vivi1

callalloo, you are right, "cause" was a poor choice in words. It probably came from my continuing explanation ("Why did I get cancer?") and justification ("Why should I take this aromatase inhibitor?") conversation in my head. Actually, the hormone imbalance language derived from Block's Life Over Cancer: "...a tumor is merely the most obvious symptom of an altered, unbalanced system...this biological imbalance creates an environment for cancer to recur: tumor cells use the body's own healthy resources to grow and multiply." (p.2-3) He argues for using every defense possible to make one's biochemical terrain hostile to cancer cells after the tumor has been removed. The reduction of estrogen is, unfortunately, a main strategy in treatment of ER+ cancer. I say unfortunately because I believe in the power of estrogen for heart, mind, bone, and general body well-being. That said, yes our contaminated environment undoubtedly triggers our cancers and an anti-cancer diet changes our biochemistry in a good way.

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I agree with the clarification in the sense that getting cancer suggests that something is wrong ('out of balance') and overtaxing our immune systems which, otherwise might be able to prevent cancer finding a comfortable environment. Our bodies deal with cancer cells constantly and can usually dis-empower them. So the interesting question, I think, is what was different on the occasion that some were able to survive and achieve critical mass?

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@callalloo

I don't know if you're oncologist was just citing her own personal policy or what, but I would feel the same way as you likely.

I go to Cleveland Clinic and my follow-up recommendations from the oncologist were the same whether I took the aromatase inhibitors or not. I see him, and the breast cancer surgeon, once a year for an annual checkup and mammo and ultrasound review, and also him, or another doctor well-skilled in cancer detection, every 6 months for a physical exam.

But I wonder if you shouldn't see another oncologist and get another opinion. It might be that her recommendation that you do anti-hormone therapy is really important. If you find another oncologist, maybe one that is more patient, no pun intended on, you can try a different aromatase inhibitor or you can try the brand name instead of a generic. If you have the same side effects, you'll know that you at least tried another option.

In the meantime the other efforts with respect to diet and supplements can only help so that's good too. But having a doctor that feels as if the two of you are a team is important too.

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Thank you for your comments. I think that because I had both breasts removed that there is no tissue to be scanned or imaged, until cancer shows up in some other part of the body. My surgeon left Seattle for the sunnier shores of California, so I have no surgeon to follow up. I can try to find another oncologist. I'm just not sure how to do that. I guess I will ask my PCP. She has also had BC and I hope will be sympathetic to my situation. However, she is a very young woman and I'm sure has opted to take an AI. She is also of Japanese heritage. Probably second or third generation.

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