Has anyone done Low Intensity Shockwave Therapy (LIST) for ED?

Posted by topf @topf, Sep 29 11:17am

Today I met with an erectile dysfunction specialist. Among other things, the guy proposed LIST. It is not covered by insurance and would come to $2,400 for the entire course. Has anyone had experience with this? Does it work or is it mostly money grabbing? I am three months post RARP and with complete ED, which I believe is still pretty normal. But early aggressive therapy seems to be important for recovery.

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I know what you're talking about because my wife did shockwave treatments for her shoulder. I then learned more about it and discovered it is also used for ED. For $2400 you could also buy the equipment yourself. I did discover late to the game that vacuum erection devices, especially using pulsed vacuum, did help with recovery of those smooth muscles that have been traumatized, and I could see that by extension high frequency vibration could also be helpful. What gave me pause, though, about both shoulder and ED treatments, is the idea that high frequency vibration had some sort of unique benefit. (What makes it "shockwave" is that it is sonic or ultrasonic in frequency. An example of sonic would be 1000hz/cycles per second, ultrasonic might be 15000hz.) These frequencies may have unique benefit, I just didn't see any evidence that assured me that was the case. The treatments are marketed, like other forms of off-label treatments or therapies, by testimonials and personal recommendations.
So, being the skeptic that I am, I tried other forms of vibration on muscles, including the particular ones in question, such as that provided by a vibrating trigger point dumbbell https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GFMPSBM. Apparently "vibrating foam roller" is a better search term. My own experience suggests to me that vibration is helpful and high frequencies are helpful, even though they are not considered proper practice of physical therapy (and hence are not reimbursible by insurance).
I would add that it can easily be too much, and hence the protocols are very careful to limit the amount of high frequency vibration during any treatment session. (LOW Intensity Shockwave Therapy.)
I still use the vibrating foam roller on various muscles, but not on the muscles in question. I found the "treatment" there too high intensity. Maybe I should (carefully) try it again.
Here's an example of the shockwave equipment to give the idea. This is just an example. https://www.amazon.com/SHEYERA-Shockwave-Extracorporeal-Non-Invasive-DR-88/dp/B0FQ4QXGZR/

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Profile picture for spino @spino

I know what you're talking about because my wife did shockwave treatments for her shoulder. I then learned more about it and discovered it is also used for ED. For $2400 you could also buy the equipment yourself. I did discover late to the game that vacuum erection devices, especially using pulsed vacuum, did help with recovery of those smooth muscles that have been traumatized, and I could see that by extension high frequency vibration could also be helpful. What gave me pause, though, about both shoulder and ED treatments, is the idea that high frequency vibration had some sort of unique benefit. (What makes it "shockwave" is that it is sonic or ultrasonic in frequency. An example of sonic would be 1000hz/cycles per second, ultrasonic might be 15000hz.) These frequencies may have unique benefit, I just didn't see any evidence that assured me that was the case. The treatments are marketed, like other forms of off-label treatments or therapies, by testimonials and personal recommendations.
So, being the skeptic that I am, I tried other forms of vibration on muscles, including the particular ones in question, such as that provided by a vibrating trigger point dumbbell https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GFMPSBM. Apparently "vibrating foam roller" is a better search term. My own experience suggests to me that vibration is helpful and high frequencies are helpful, even though they are not considered proper practice of physical therapy (and hence are not reimbursible by insurance).
I would add that it can easily be too much, and hence the protocols are very careful to limit the amount of high frequency vibration during any treatment session. (LOW Intensity Shockwave Therapy.)
I still use the vibrating foam roller on various muscles, but not on the muscles in question. I found the "treatment" there too high intensity. Maybe I should (carefully) try it again.
Here's an example of the shockwave equipment to give the idea. This is just an example. https://www.amazon.com/SHEYERA-Shockwave-Extracorporeal-Non-Invasive-DR-88/dp/B0FQ4QXGZR/

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@spino

TheraGun works wonders for muscle and joint pains and it is a fraction of a price. At least it works for all of my family members, old and young. Usually just one session makes big difference in pain level, sometimes one is enough to remove all pain. IMHO the best invention ever made. 👍🥰

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Well, I was curious, but looking into it this therapy seems aimed more at musco-skeletal issues.
ED is more a function of blood flow and circulation.
There also doesn't seem to be much in the way of rigorous studies showing effectiveness for even its intended issues.
Color me highly skeptical.
Oh, by the way, 1000hz is like a backup alarm, and 15000 hz. is still within the audio spectrum, i.e. not "ultrasonic", (if not necessarily for many older guys like myself). As a young buck, I could actually hear up to about 23K!

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Profile picture for spino @spino

I know what you're talking about because my wife did shockwave treatments for her shoulder. I then learned more about it and discovered it is also used for ED. For $2400 you could also buy the equipment yourself. I did discover late to the game that vacuum erection devices, especially using pulsed vacuum, did help with recovery of those smooth muscles that have been traumatized, and I could see that by extension high frequency vibration could also be helpful. What gave me pause, though, about both shoulder and ED treatments, is the idea that high frequency vibration had some sort of unique benefit. (What makes it "shockwave" is that it is sonic or ultrasonic in frequency. An example of sonic would be 1000hz/cycles per second, ultrasonic might be 15000hz.) These frequencies may have unique benefit, I just didn't see any evidence that assured me that was the case. The treatments are marketed, like other forms of off-label treatments or therapies, by testimonials and personal recommendations.
So, being the skeptic that I am, I tried other forms of vibration on muscles, including the particular ones in question, such as that provided by a vibrating trigger point dumbbell https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GFMPSBM. Apparently "vibrating foam roller" is a better search term. My own experience suggests to me that vibration is helpful and high frequencies are helpful, even though they are not considered proper practice of physical therapy (and hence are not reimbursible by insurance).
I would add that it can easily be too much, and hence the protocols are very careful to limit the amount of high frequency vibration during any treatment session. (LOW Intensity Shockwave Therapy.)
I still use the vibrating foam roller on various muscles, but not on the muscles in question. I found the "treatment" there too high intensity. Maybe I should (carefully) try it again.
Here's an example of the shockwave equipment to give the idea. This is just an example. https://www.amazon.com/SHEYERA-Shockwave-Extracorporeal-Non-Invasive-DR-88/dp/B0FQ4QXGZR/

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@spino Thanks for that very thorough reply! I am also skeptical since I could not find any supporting evidence.

My physiotherapist also recommened using a vibrator once a day on top of the VED. Will look into pulsed VED you mentioned.

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Here's a sample listing. Note that medical therapy is not the primary audience for this VED, so we benefit from lower pricing but at the cost of highly questionable advertising. In fact this comes with one piece I needed to throw away. Also the instructions are very poor. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CF967MJZ.
My instructions (for therapy on the smooth muscle tissue):
1) test for fit and pre-apply lube to black cup in place on device
2) press and hold button 1 to turn on
3) press button 2 to start suction and
4) press button 3 to start cycling before it becomes uncomfortable
5) press and hold button 4 to stop suction and release pressure
Note 1: Limit use to 10 minutes twice a day or 20 minutes once and don't use if otherwise stimulated that day.
Note 2: This use does not involve sexual stimulation, only smooth muscle stimulation through vacuum therapy.

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