does a spinal fusion prevent a TKJR?

Posted by realitytest @realitytest, Sep 30, 2023

In 2015 I had a right TKJR and it worked OK though I'm sure it would have been better if I hadn't fallen in the hospital right after the operation (nurse didn't come when I called for help to the bathroom).

Since then I (finally) had a spinal reconstruction including a complete fusion from T4 to the pelvis. My knee surgeon told me shortly after he did the right knee that my left knee "qualified" for a joint replacement too and indeed, besides pain, it's now collapsing under me at random. I'd like to have the left knee replaced but based on my recollection of the right knee work, I don't see how I can have the left one done, because of my stiff spine - no bending. twisting, etc.

I remember how important the rehab was to recover from the right knee replacement. It especially involved stretching that knee to protect the ROM and avoid scarring which would have prevented me from bending the knee.

But! I'm like the tin-man/woman because of the spinal op. Is there any way I could qualify to have the TKJR done now?

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Joint Replacements Support Group.

@realitytest I'm sorry, your question seems to have "fallen through the cracks" here and you never got a reply.

To answer your question about whether it is feasible to have a TKR after spinal fusion, the answer is probably a qualified "Yes"

Here are some factors I would consider -
It's 8 years later, so your whole body is 8 years older. Do you have other health issues (besides the fused spine) that would make surgery too risky or recovery too difficult?
Do you have help at home for after the surgery, and possible short-term rehab stay?
Do you have the will to go through the full rehab? You know what is is like, so only you know if you have the energy for it.
Is there an alternative to surgery that would work for you and your lifestyle? I am thinking of a full knee brace - what my kids called my "metal monster" when I was awaiting ACL/MCL replacement years ago.

Thinking of all that, are you still interested? If so, maybe we can bring in a few others and talk about next steps.
Sue

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@sueinmn

@realitytest I'm sorry, your question seems to have "fallen through the cracks" here and you never got a reply.

To answer your question about whether it is feasible to have a TKR after spinal fusion, the answer is probably a qualified "Yes"

Here are some factors I would consider -
It's 8 years later, so your whole body is 8 years older. Do you have other health issues (besides the fused spine) that would make surgery too risky or recovery too difficult?
Do you have help at home for after the surgery, and possible short-term rehab stay?
Do you have the will to go through the full rehab? You know what is is like, so only you know if you have the energy for it.
Is there an alternative to surgery that would work for you and your lifestyle? I am thinking of a full knee brace - what my kids called my "metal monster" when I was awaiting ACL/MCL replacement years ago.

Thinking of all that, are you still interested? If so, maybe we can bring in a few others and talk about next steps.
Sue

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Thanks very much, Sue. It's so comforting to know there are people like you looking out for "lost in the cracks" posters like me.

I really don't know how I could possibly qualify for the TKJR on the left, though you said the answer might be a "qualified yes". I wonder if you've had a TKJR or know first hand someone who has (re the required rehabbing). You seem familiar with what a spinal fusion (especially one as extensive as mine) involves in terms of mobility limitations and recovery.

Even after all this time, I have to use grabbies to help me dress (pants, under and overpants, putting on shoes is challenging, and clipping my toenails - ha!. I depend on a bidet for elimination - not just for cleansing, but because of nerve damage which slows peristalsis and (don't know why) often leads to serious constipation. (My bidet has a "Vortex" option which can produce a strong spray which, aimed carefully, acts as an enema -though imperfectly.)

I remember the exercises for recovery from TKJR (famously painful) involved extreme extension (usually with exercise bands) to prevent the joint from healing with limited ROM - because of scarring. If done imperfectly, it leaves the joint unable to straighten owing to a permanent angle of articulation.

I COULD get rehab for weeks (the last one was awful, but some aren't), and also some at-home PT thereafter (they also check my at home adaptions - stairs, climbing into and out of car, etc.). However (my great fear the first time too), is what I'd do if I wound up with a major complication - all too common.

A son was free before to stay on hand for many months just "in case" (which I didn't turn out to need), but for a revision op now, neither son could be available for such a contingency owing to work demands. (A problem so many people have going through major surgery alone! I really don't know how any singletons manage - and perhaps they can't, unless they are very wealthy and can cover an aide (not to mention home and self care).

TBC

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@realitytest

Thanks very much, Sue. It's so comforting to know there are people like you looking out for "lost in the cracks" posters like me.

I really don't know how I could possibly qualify for the TKJR on the left, though you said the answer might be a "qualified yes". I wonder if you've had a TKJR or know first hand someone who has (re the required rehabbing). You seem familiar with what a spinal fusion (especially one as extensive as mine) involves in terms of mobility limitations and recovery.

Even after all this time, I have to use grabbies to help me dress (pants, under and overpants, putting on shoes is challenging, and clipping my toenails - ha!. I depend on a bidet for elimination - not just for cleansing, but because of nerve damage which slows peristalsis and (don't know why) often leads to serious constipation. (My bidet has a "Vortex" option which can produce a strong spray which, aimed carefully, acts as an enema -though imperfectly.)

I remember the exercises for recovery from TKJR (famously painful) involved extreme extension (usually with exercise bands) to prevent the joint from healing with limited ROM - because of scarring. If done imperfectly, it leaves the joint unable to straighten owing to a permanent angle of articulation.

I COULD get rehab for weeks (the last one was awful, but some aren't), and also some at-home PT thereafter (they also check my at home adaptions - stairs, climbing into and out of car, etc.). However (my great fear the first time too), is what I'd do if I wound up with a major complication - all too common.

A son was free before to stay on hand for many months just "in case" (which I didn't turn out to need), but for a revision op now, neither son could be available for such a contingency owing to work demands. (A problem so many people have going through major surgery alone! I really don't know how any singletons manage - and perhaps they can't, unless they are very wealthy and can cover an aide (not to mention home and self care).

TBC

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TB frank, my knee surgeon's PA said it was NOT doable but I haven't asked anyone else. Also (didn't mention this previously, perhaps making the whole knee question moot), but I 'm looking into spinal revision surgery to (hopefully) allow me to walk and even stand without support. Apart from avoiding intolerable pain, that's a longstanding dream (at least, since I've had to eliminate all of my other enjoyable exercise: running, biking, gymnastics...

My spinal surgeon's never admitted errors, left me "toeing out" on the left, making walking unsteady and acts on the entire leg up to and including the hip. It throws off my center of gravity (can really only ambulate with supermarket carts!) . Apart from my "drunken sailor" gait, this also causes twisting of that knee with every foot-strike. (Undoubtedly aggravates the preexisting arthritic-based knee problems.)

(A bitter complaint, that surgeon denies having ANY connection to that and other problems even though they only appeared as soon as I came to. ) Note, he was head of spinal services at the Hospital for Special Surgery, supposed to be the best orthopedic hospital in the nation. So much for choosing a doc on the basis of fame and charisma - and after eight consults!

If approved, I'd work this time with ' a surgeon at Duke uni, one who specializes in extreme spinal surgery, board certified in orthopedic and neurosurgery. It would mean several lengthy trips (to and from PA to NC), with uncertainty about how I'd manage the lengthy recuperation even if nothing serious goes wrong - far from knowable.

I apologize for getting carried away with my lengthy description of issues which basically make it impossible to be encouraging about how I might manage the TKJR with a fused spine. I guess I've talked my way out of anyone's ability to be positive (only sympathetic). Maybe, that reduces this outreach primarily to venting. You are so kind to have written back to my initial query, and I'm sorry your analysis resulted largely in this negative presentation of obstacles . Even if so, though, merely your reading this (if you have! No blame if not) , has been a comfort.

I'm interested in your complex knee brace (though I have difficulty picturing my attaching it, again owing to the spinal limitations). Your going to the trouble of such descriptions plus presenting issues I need to examine in decision-making, is much appreciated! (Maybe, I'd basically need to choose between a TKJR and a spinal revision, to start - to be minimally realistic about my options).

At least, my overall health (organ function, including heart) is pretty good for my age - 77. Apart from paroxysmal AFIB, my problems are mostly in the nuisance category, rather than life-threatening (attributable mostly perhaps to regular gym work-outs . Reminding me of another quandary - how would needing to majorly restrict gym exercise during the protracted recovery period from either operation, affect me? (I''m forgetting just what the requirements were for the spinal rehab. Daily walking of at least a mile? If so, back to the supermarkets, I guess, especially in Winter. )

If all this were a decade or two ago, perhaps daring combo surgical approaches would be more realistic, but chances are, I'm stuck now. Nevertheless, it would be very helpful to hear from others here who've dealt with questions of how and if to combine a spinal fusion with TKJR. I'd love to learn of their decisions and/or outcomes. (Think I'll divide this entry into at least two parts to make it less off-putting!)

Thank you again for your kindness!

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