1. < Spine Health

Any Violinists out there with Craniocervical instability (CCI)?

Posted by oliverviolin @oliverviolin, 1 day ago

Hi everyone! I am in my final year of a violin performance degree, and have recently been experiencing a range of symptoms I believe are caused by CCI. currently working with a doctor on this and things are not looking super awesome, though I came here to see if there is anyone who has experienced this sort of diagnosis as a musician/violinist/violist/cellist etc. before? Is there hope? Concerned I might need to find a new career path.

Thank you with utmost kindness!
-oliver

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Mentor
Jennifer, Volunteer Mentor | @jenniferhunter | 1 day ago

@oliverviolin Oliver, welcome to Connect. I am a Mayo cervical spine surgery patient. While, I don't have your same diagnosis, I was wondering if there could be an adaptive device to use with your violin that would allow you to play without needing to bend your neck so much. I took violin lessons as a kid and having to hold the violin by bending at the neck isn't good if there is a spine issue. It might be worth discussing with your doctor about services that make custom braces for people. You'd probably need to adapt to to the way you play since you wouldn't be able to look at the violin the same way that you are used to doing. A brace may need to be something that holds the violin to your chest without you needing to apply pressure with your neck and that allows the instrument to rotate around you.

I understand how concerning it s to possibly loose an artistic skill that you've trained for with lots of years of practice. I was in a similar circumstance because I needed a spine fusion at C5/C6 and had spinal cord compression. I was loosing coordination in my arms and I am an artist, so it mattered. It has been many years of practice in my life to get my skill level to where it is today.

Don't give up hope. You may be the person to design such an assistive device that could become a business.

Jennifer

REPLY
1 reply
Mentor
John, Volunteer Mentor | @johnbishop | 1 day ago

Hi Oliver, I thought you might find this reference that talks about the problem helpful.
-- Neck and Shoulder Problems? Give it a Rest! - Don't suffer! Violin ergonomics have improved considerably since the old days before better understanding and rests/pads were available.:
https://www.fiddleheads.com/articles/post/neck-and-shoulder-problems--give-it-a-rest
Here's another one:
-- Neck: the core of coordination
https://violinistinbalance.org/neck.htm

REPLY
2 replies
Mentor
Jennifer, Volunteer Mentor | @jenniferhunter | 1 day ago
In reply to @johnbishop "Hi Oliver, I thought you might find this reference that talks about the problem helpful. --..." + (show)
@johnbishop

Hi Oliver, I thought you might find this reference that talks about the problem helpful.
-- Neck and Shoulder Problems? Give it a Rest! - Don't suffer! Violin ergonomics have improved considerably since the old days before better understanding and rests/pads were available.:
https://www.fiddleheads.com/articles/post/neck-and-shoulder-problems--give-it-a-rest
Here's another one:
-- Neck: the core of coordination
https://violinistinbalance.org/neck.htm

Jump to this post

@johnbishop This is great information. I didn't know that shoulder braces existed for violins and that's a great idea.

REPLY
oliverviolin | @oliverviolin | 1 day ago
In reply to @jenniferhunter "@oliverviolin Oliver, welcome to Connect. I am a Mayo cervical spine surgery patient. While, I don't..." + (show)
@jenniferhunter

@oliverviolin Oliver, welcome to Connect. I am a Mayo cervical spine surgery patient. While, I don't have your same diagnosis, I was wondering if there could be an adaptive device to use with your violin that would allow you to play without needing to bend your neck so much. I took violin lessons as a kid and having to hold the violin by bending at the neck isn't good if there is a spine issue. It might be worth discussing with your doctor about services that make custom braces for people. You'd probably need to adapt to to the way you play since you wouldn't be able to look at the violin the same way that you are used to doing. A brace may need to be something that holds the violin to your chest without you needing to apply pressure with your neck and that allows the instrument to rotate around you.

I understand how concerning it s to possibly loose an artistic skill that you've trained for with lots of years of practice. I was in a similar circumstance because I needed a spine fusion at C5/C6 and had spinal cord compression. I was loosing coordination in my arms and I am an artist, so it mattered. It has been many years of practice in my life to get my skill level to where it is today.

Don't give up hope. You may be the person to design such an assistive device that could become a business.

Jennifer

Jump to this post

Hello to a fellow artist and musician! Jennifer, thank you so much for your kind, welcoming, and detailed reply! It feels crushing to think of needing to adapt the way I have made music thus far, though it is equally relieving to hear that there are possibilities for the continuation of my craft. How wonderful to hear of your creativity within the arts as well! What type of art do you enjoy most? I have dabbled in charcoal and abstract acrylic through the years, though mainly for a hobby and making holiday gifts for my family and friends--and, I am so sorry that you are able to empathize with your own experiences as an artist. Out of curiosity, have you needed to utilize assistive devices as well for practicing art? Thank you again for your words of hope, this has really helped me far more than I could have anticipated--& I will probably spend the next week or so researching all I can on assistive devices!!

This all reminds me of a parable my mom has mentioned to me: "good, bad, who's to say?" (there's more to it but I forget at this moment), essentially meaning, we have no idea what the ultimate, long-term outcome may be of events in life--so while something may be complexly difficult in the moment, it might lead you somewhere even more fulfilling in the end. I dunno. I find comfort in that for some reason, and thought you might enjoy reading it as well.

I never dreamed of myself being in this position with violin, though your thought of me being the person to design a new technology really does bring me hope and excitement that maybe one day I will help and bring comfort to other violinist experiencing the same thing. I sure hope whatever I offer within the creative field will end up helping others one way or another.

Thank you most sincerely again for your words, and I am wishing you good health, peace, happiness, and flourishing creativity!

Kindly,
Oliver

REPLY
1 reply
oliverviolin | @oliverviolin | 1 day ago
In reply to @johnbishop "Hi Oliver, I thought you might find this reference that talks about the problem helpful. --..." + (show)
@johnbishop

Hi Oliver, I thought you might find this reference that talks about the problem helpful.
-- Neck and Shoulder Problems? Give it a Rest! - Don't suffer! Violin ergonomics have improved considerably since the old days before better understanding and rests/pads were available.:
https://www.fiddleheads.com/articles/post/neck-and-shoulder-problems--give-it-a-rest
Here's another one:
-- Neck: the core of coordination
https://violinistinbalance.org/neck.htm

Jump to this post

Hi John, thank you for sharing these resources! I really appreciate the help, I will give them a read 🙂
Kindly,
Oliver

REPLY
Mentor
Jennifer, Volunteer Mentor | @jenniferhunter | 22 hours ago
In reply to @oliverviolin "Hello to a fellow artist and musician! Jennifer, thank you so much for your kind, welcoming,..." + (show)
@oliverviolin

Hello to a fellow artist and musician! Jennifer, thank you so much for your kind, welcoming, and detailed reply! It feels crushing to think of needing to adapt the way I have made music thus far, though it is equally relieving to hear that there are possibilities for the continuation of my craft. How wonderful to hear of your creativity within the arts as well! What type of art do you enjoy most? I have dabbled in charcoal and abstract acrylic through the years, though mainly for a hobby and making holiday gifts for my family and friends--and, I am so sorry that you are able to empathize with your own experiences as an artist. Out of curiosity, have you needed to utilize assistive devices as well for practicing art? Thank you again for your words of hope, this has really helped me far more than I could have anticipated--& I will probably spend the next week or so researching all I can on assistive devices!!

This all reminds me of a parable my mom has mentioned to me: "good, bad, who's to say?" (there's more to it but I forget at this moment), essentially meaning, we have no idea what the ultimate, long-term outcome may be of events in life--so while something may be complexly difficult in the moment, it might lead you somewhere even more fulfilling in the end. I dunno. I find comfort in that for some reason, and thought you might enjoy reading it as well.

I never dreamed of myself being in this position with violin, though your thought of me being the person to design a new technology really does bring me hope and excitement that maybe one day I will help and bring comfort to other violinist experiencing the same thing. I sure hope whatever I offer within the creative field will end up helping others one way or another.

Thank you most sincerely again for your words, and I am wishing you good health, peace, happiness, and flourishing creativity!

Kindly,
Oliver

Jump to this post

@oliverviolin Oliver, thank you kindly for your words. This is your chance to redefine how you think about yourself and how you can reinvent who you are. Life has a way of taking detours sometimes, and it is in using creativity to overcome the challenges that you can grow as a person. When I was facing loss of coordination in my arms because of the spine injury, it was a real turning point for me. I was also facing a significant and disabling level of fear because I knew that if I did nothing, my disability would become permanent, not just the ability to paint, but anything else where I was holding my arms up like driving a car or pushing a shopping cart and I was already walking with a limp. I remember being so exhausted after 45 minutes at the grocery store that I had to take a nap in the car before I could drive myself home. There was only one good choice, and to get there, I had to let go of how I saw myself. I was fortunate that I had a choice to prevent a disability.

I looked to other people I knew who had overcome significant medical adversity and had emerged victorious. One of those people was a well known musician, Pete Huttlinger, who was born with a serious congenital heart defect and in his early 50's, it became life threatening causing a stroke. Pete was a virtuoso on the guitar and played and toured with John Denver. The stroke took away his ability to play the guitar. Pete decided to teach himself to play guitar again, and he did. He also was the first person to have a ventricular assistance device permanently installed to help his heart pump blood. This had only been used as a temporary measure to bridge time while waiting for a heart transplant. Unfortunately, he wasn't a candidate for a transplant because the great vessels of the heart were in the wrong place. With his heart pump, Pete was able to walk a half marathon and he showed everyone what was possible. His motto was "don't just live, live well!"


The other person who helped me was Wayne Messmer, a well known singer in Chicago who sings the national anthem for sports teams. I came to know Wayne because indirectly, I played a small part in his recovery after a gun shot took his voice in a robbery attempt. After emergency surgery that saved his life, Wayne spent a lot of time in therapy recovering the ability to sing again. My husband and I were playing concerts in a community band in a park, and Wayne's house overlooked that park from a distance. As his first public singing performance since the injury, he and his wife were invited to sing Broadway show tunes with our band. It was after this, that he sang the national anthem live again at a sporting event as his return to a performing career. Wayne and his wife performed every year with our community band. I was playing mallet percussion.

Wayne's story


I asked Wayne about his courage when I had to face my own fears, and he told me that you don't really know what you are capable of until you are tested. Wayne had not only physically recovered, but he visited the young man in jail who had pulled the trigger and forgave him. He found that gratitude could overcome the anger and fear of his injury which is an important lesson in itself. Wayne told me that if my choice was to undergo spine surgery or loose my talent for art, then I must choose to save my talent because it was too important to loose.

I was facing fear, but not a life threatening event, and the examples these friends set taught me a lot about a transformation of myself through this process of medical intervention. It's easy to see yourself with a problem you wish you didn't have and the grief and loss of your ability. The challenge is to look to yourself to make the choices to solve the problem instead of giving in to defeat and find an alternate route instead of sitting at a road block. It is a journey of self discovery, gratitude, and you will find yourself again and evolve into a new existence having been changed for the better.

I was classically trained in fine art and focused on painting in watercolor and oil. I did a fair number of charcoal drawings in life drawing class. During my recovery after spinal fusion in my neck at Mayo, what I wanted to do most was to paint a portrait of the surgeon who gave me back the ability to do that (after some rehab). I did regain the strength and coordination of holding my arm out to paint and I followed through with my goal of painting my surgeon. It was my first post- operative painting and it took a month to complete. It was my mountain to climb to see if I could do it well enough, and within the standards I had set for myself. It allowed me to express my gratitude and to heal emotionally from a loss that had now become a victory for me. There are references to finding my work online in my videos.

My Mayo story
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/using-the-art-of-medicine-to-overcome-fear-of-surgery/
I also recorded the creation of the painting. At the end of the video, you'll see my surgeon with the painting and a note he wrote to me. It's a time lapse set to instrumental music. I hope you like it and find it inspiring.

Also wishing you peace, health, and lots of beautiful artistic musical expression,
Jennifer

REPLY
1 reply
oliverviolin | @oliverviolin | 7 hours ago
In reply to @jenniferhunter "@oliverviolin Oliver, thank you kindly for your words. This is your chance to redefine how you..." + (show)
@jenniferhunter

@oliverviolin Oliver, thank you kindly for your words. This is your chance to redefine how you think about yourself and how you can reinvent who you are. Life has a way of taking detours sometimes, and it is in using creativity to overcome the challenges that you can grow as a person. When I was facing loss of coordination in my arms because of the spine injury, it was a real turning point for me. I was also facing a significant and disabling level of fear because I knew that if I did nothing, my disability would become permanent, not just the ability to paint, but anything else where I was holding my arms up like driving a car or pushing a shopping cart and I was already walking with a limp. I remember being so exhausted after 45 minutes at the grocery store that I had to take a nap in the car before I could drive myself home. There was only one good choice, and to get there, I had to let go of how I saw myself. I was fortunate that I had a choice to prevent a disability.

I looked to other people I knew who had overcome significant medical adversity and had emerged victorious. One of those people was a well known musician, Pete Huttlinger, who was born with a serious congenital heart defect and in his early 50's, it became life threatening causing a stroke. Pete was a virtuoso on the guitar and played and toured with John Denver. The stroke took away his ability to play the guitar. Pete decided to teach himself to play guitar again, and he did. He also was the first person to have a ventricular assistance device permanently installed to help his heart pump blood. This had only been used as a temporary measure to bridge time while waiting for a heart transplant. Unfortunately, he wasn't a candidate for a transplant because the great vessels of the heart were in the wrong place. With his heart pump, Pete was able to walk a half marathon and he showed everyone what was possible. His motto was "don't just live, live well!"


The other person who helped me was Wayne Messmer, a well known singer in Chicago who sings the national anthem for sports teams. I came to know Wayne because indirectly, I played a small part in his recovery after a gun shot took his voice in a robbery attempt. After emergency surgery that saved his life, Wayne spent a lot of time in therapy recovering the ability to sing again. My husband and I were playing concerts in a community band in a park, and Wayne's house overlooked that park from a distance. As his first public singing performance since the injury, he and his wife were invited to sing Broadway show tunes with our band. It was after this, that he sang the national anthem live again at a sporting event as his return to a performing career. Wayne and his wife performed every year with our community band. I was playing mallet percussion.

Wayne's story


I asked Wayne about his courage when I had to face my own fears, and he told me that you don't really know what you are capable of until you are tested. Wayne had not only physically recovered, but he visited the young man in jail who had pulled the trigger and forgave him. He found that gratitude could overcome the anger and fear of his injury which is an important lesson in itself. Wayne told me that if my choice was to undergo spine surgery or loose my talent for art, then I must choose to save my talent because it was too important to loose.

I was facing fear, but not a life threatening event, and the examples these friends set taught me a lot about a transformation of myself through this process of medical intervention. It's easy to see yourself with a problem you wish you didn't have and the grief and loss of your ability. The challenge is to look to yourself to make the choices to solve the problem instead of giving in to defeat and find an alternate route instead of sitting at a road block. It is a journey of self discovery, gratitude, and you will find yourself again and evolve into a new existence having been changed for the better.

I was classically trained in fine art and focused on painting in watercolor and oil. I did a fair number of charcoal drawings in life drawing class. During my recovery after spinal fusion in my neck at Mayo, what I wanted to do most was to paint a portrait of the surgeon who gave me back the ability to do that (after some rehab). I did regain the strength and coordination of holding my arm out to paint and I followed through with my goal of painting my surgeon. It was my first post- operative painting and it took a month to complete. It was my mountain to climb to see if I could do it well enough, and within the standards I had set for myself. It allowed me to express my gratitude and to heal emotionally from a loss that had now become a victory for me. There are references to finding my work online in my videos.

My Mayo story
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/using-the-art-of-medicine-to-overcome-fear-of-surgery/
I also recorded the creation of the painting. At the end of the video, you'll see my surgeon with the painting and a note he wrote to me. It's a time lapse set to instrumental music. I hope you like it and find it inspiring.

Also wishing you peace, health, and lots of beautiful artistic musical expression,
Jennifer

Jump to this post

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and lessons from life experience, and for sharing stories of Pete Huttlinger and Wayne Messmer--got me a bit teary-eyed if I'm being honest. How fantastic and special to have such a connection with Wayne as well (as a mallet percussionist no less, that is so awesome!! I played marimba and timpani in the 8th grade! lol). I read your interview, and, to hear your connection with art especially as it is how you express and experience life was impactful. That is extremely relatable with my relationship to music--sure I enjoy making and writing music as a passion and for work also, though most of the songs I've written have been in direct reaction to significant life events.

And your painting. simply WOW!!..I am speechless having just watched through the time lapse video. Every minute and hour and day and month and year of focused and inspired work you have put towards your passion truly shows in your art. It is beautiful and so incredibly detailed...you captured the magic and humanity of him so perfectly. Thank you for sharing this!! I am in awe!! I am so thankful that you were able to keep painting. Such a beautiful full-circle moment. I found the time lapse aspect to be comforting as well 🙂

With that said, I will take your words with great sincerity and meaningfulness as I continue on my journey into the unknown. With extensive gratitude, on all levels, thank you.

To quote Pete, live well!

kindly,
Oliver

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