Has anyone had breast lymphedema which then spread to the arm?

Posted by timely @timely, Dec 8, 2023

This is a stress situation.
I am in the process of learning breast self massage as I am dealing with breast lymphedema. Discovered with mammogram and ultrasound in August 2023.

I have arm measurements from Jan 2023 and September 2023.

Now, in Nov. 2023, both arm measurements have gone up slightly.
Lymphedema PT suggested even the week before I asked her to remeasure
arms that became I had muscle pain in one spot of arm of breast lymphedema that I should get a sleeve and hand glove. But she said that I did not have lymphedema in arm. This upset me as why if I don’t have lymphedema there would I want to do this….Feel like it is a crazy situation. Is this a prefigure of arm lymphedema? There was a post on Pub Med. mentioning this idea..of prefigurement. She claimed I did not have arm lymphedema. After measurements, she thinks that the slight increase is muscle build up.

Add to the mix, Pub Med says that if you take calcium channel blockers that you can get lymphedema and lymph problems (Pub Med. Stolitz 2019)
I am taking calcium channel blocker.

Please reply with feedback and ideas to make sense of all this.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Breast Cancer Support Group.

@leolion811

I wish all the best too. It was explained to me yesterday that US only picks up inside of the skin. Thank God my surgeon did a punch out biopsy since mamma/US wouldn’t have picked it up.
What do you mean by an “old” team?

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Sorry. It was a typo. I meant a good team.

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@myoga

I mean a good team. So much for auto filler!

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Thanks 😊

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Sorry you are going through this!! Sounds to me like you need to get a new Lymphedema PT and get an opinion from your Cardiologist on the Calcium Channel Blocker.
I understand about Lymphedema, I’m have one last follow up appointment with my PT at Sutter Roseville Lymphedema Clinic. She has been amazing, and glad I decided to change PT’s!
Sending you comfort and healing🌻💕

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@soulangel

Sorry you are going through this!! Sounds to me like you need to get a new Lymphedema PT and get an opinion from your Cardiologist on the Calcium Channel Blocker.
I understand about Lymphedema, I’m have one last follow up appointment with my PT at Sutter Roseville Lymphedema Clinic. She has been amazing, and glad I decided to change PT’s!
Sending you comfort and healing🌻💕

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@soulangel

Thank you so much.

Switching to a new lymphedema PT is so awkward. I do need to do it. I do want to leave on good terms. How would you do this? I would need to get a referral to a new one…

I see her this Wednesday and have appointments through January.

Meanwhile, the only bra that I can wear is the compression bra prescribed to me.
PT suggested that I take a regular bra and put in the
Bag that she made with large bits of sponge to help with the fibrosis.
Two different regular bras caused pain at sentinel node, underarm and I also got knots 🪢 at 2 places in my arm above elbow.
Tried wearing a regular bra with no chip pad to bed and all it did too was cause pain in those same places.

Obviously, the sentinel node area and armpit causes pain with any pressure on them….

Thought of getting those soothies pads and taping them to the breast at night without a bra…

Tabled cardiologist to after January 1st.

All blood pressure meds cause edema….Calcium channel blockers can cause lymphedema and lymph node problems that longer that you are on them even though radiation and BC surgery and lymph node removal are the main cause of lymphedema.

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@timely

@soulangel

Thank you so much.

Switching to a new lymphedema PT is so awkward. I do need to do it. I do want to leave on good terms. How would you do this? I would need to get a referral to a new one…

I see her this Wednesday and have appointments through January.

Meanwhile, the only bra that I can wear is the compression bra prescribed to me.
PT suggested that I take a regular bra and put in the
Bag that she made with large bits of sponge to help with the fibrosis.
Two different regular bras caused pain at sentinel node, underarm and I also got knots 🪢 at 2 places in my arm above elbow.
Tried wearing a regular bra with no chip pad to bed and all it did too was cause pain in those same places.

Obviously, the sentinel node area and armpit causes pain with any pressure on them….

Thought of getting those soothies pads and taping them to the breast at night without a bra…

Tabled cardiologist to after January 1st.

All blood pressure meds cause edema….Calcium channel blockers can cause lymphedema and lymph node problems that longer that you are on them even though radiation and BC surgery and lymph node removal are the main cause of lymphedema.

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@soulangel

His (cardiologist) suggestion to give me digoxin instead was unacceptable because of the severe side effects and;
it is the most dangerous blood pressure med for those with arrhythmias.

I have a new cardiologist lined up with a March appointment….’

All this is exhausting and stressful, to say the least.

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@soulangel

Sorry you are going through this!! Sounds to me like you need to get a new Lymphedema PT and get an opinion from your Cardiologist on the Calcium Channel Blocker.
I understand about Lymphedema, I’m have one last follow up appointment with my PT at Sutter Roseville Lymphedema Clinic. She has been amazing, and glad I decided to change PT’s!
Sending you comfort and healing🌻💕

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PS to my last reply:
I agree with you on the Calcium Channel Blocker, my old Cardiologist wanted me to use them and I refused. I am on Losartan for now, but will be talking to my New Cardiologist about getting off blood pressure medicine because my cholesterol is good and blood pressure steady at where it should be for 10 months now! All due to a huge change in Lifestyle, a more Holistic Integrative approach in all areas of my life.
As far as switching Lymphedema PT, I talked to the office manager and he was really receptive to my switching, as he understood that care is not just physical, but there has to be comfort and understanding on an emotional level. So I switched to another PT, and have been with her for my last 4 Sessions. Megan is absolutely amazing on so many levels.
I do not wear a compression bra as I find they are uncomfortable, so Megan suggested a "Swell Pad" that fits into my bra cup, and ordered me a compression pump which is covered by Medicare. Both of which you need prescriptions for by your Lymphedema PT
Have a Blessed Holiday Season♥

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@leolion811

Tomorrow is my diagnostic mammogram/ultrasound and waiting to find out when my Petscan will be scheduled- then surgery. I am in shock- it is only been 1 year since I completed everything for my reoccurrence.

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@leolion811 I have been thinking of you just about nonstop, as I am post-surgery& chemo TNBC status also. (Almost two years out from the end of chemo.) I saw your post in the lymphedema discussion thread because I've been dealing with that. I'm sending you every best wish along with being terribly curious as to what indicated the TN has returned. I have been dealing with a deep pain in my left arm which is becoming more constant than episodic; I had up until lately considered it to be related to the chest lymphedema I had under the mastectony scar. (The left side was my "tumor side.") The doc said I had "pre-clinical" lymphedema in my left arm, so I've been wearing a sleeve every day. But that deep ache is getting worse. I am worried about metastatic bone involvement but I'm not due to see my oncologist until February. What was the flag that indicated your TN has returned?

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@timely I discussed some of my lymphedema situation just now in a post to @leolion811. I had a big lymphedema event on my trunk just under the scar six months after my mastectomy (lots of airflights, vaccinations, blood draws, lugging heavy bags--everything I *afterwards* found out were recommendations to avoid...my medical team later told me those cautions had been "debunked" -- haha NOT!) I have been wearing a sleeve on that arm daily for the last 18 months because even though the specialist said it's just at the 'preclinical' level in my arm, there have been variations of aching on and off and I'm leery of having another occurrence. I also wear a compression "bra" daily (seems odd to call it that after a DX w/no reconstruction!) with a swell spot added when I fly, as well as KT tape for a week every other week and self manual lymph drainage most mornings. I have a friend who has to spend an hour every day on a compression/drainage machine for torso lymphedema, and an acquaintance who showed me her arm after years of dealing with lymphedema after breast cancer surgery--bigger than my thigh. I have been figuring that the discomfort of these proactive steps is worth it if they will prevent an ongoing battle against even greater discomforts down the road. Just my own personal life calculus--everyone has to balance their own comfort vs risk, I guess! Good luck with your situation. It seems like lymphedema is an area where we are unfortunately pretty much in a "wild west" of medicine!

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@timely
It could be you're having "axial webbing" which is a type of lymphedema which causes pain and limiting motion. I have lymphedema of the breast at times with "cording" or "axial webbing" going up my arm at times all the way to my wrist. The physical therapist started me on a "swell spot" which I wear under my bra for a week or two at a time which helps to resolve this, however, it does re-occur at times - it's just something I'm learning to live with and, now that I know what to do, I'm okay with it. The swell spot also helps soften the radiation fibrosis - yes, isn't that another great side effect, like having a lump of cement riding over your ribs? For the tender areas from surgical scars, I use Calendula cream (Boiron makes a nice cream) and that tends to help calm it down. Hang in there...wishing you the best.

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@lnlowe70

@leolion811 I have been thinking of you just about nonstop, as I am post-surgery& chemo TNBC status also. (Almost two years out from the end of chemo.) I saw your post in the lymphedema discussion thread because I've been dealing with that. I'm sending you every best wish along with being terribly curious as to what indicated the TN has returned. I have been dealing with a deep pain in my left arm which is becoming more constant than episodic; I had up until lately considered it to be related to the chest lymphedema I had under the mastectony scar. (The left side was my "tumor side.") The doc said I had "pre-clinical" lymphedema in my left arm, so I've been wearing a sleeve every day. But that deep ache is getting worse. I am worried about metastatic bone involvement but I'm not due to see my oncologist until February. What was the flag that indicated your TN has returned?

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Thank you for your kind words. Sorry you are dealing with all of this. Can you call another member of your team to see if you can get in sooner? I have 5 doctors in my team. Keep calling til one of them can see you before February.🙏🏼🙏🏼

As for me, I felt a tiny little bump on the outside of my skin this summer. Had my bilateral mammogram/ultrasound- they saw something - had biopsy and I told the radiologist who did the biopsy to look at the little bump. She wasn’t concerned- thought it was a pimple ( it was on my dissection scar)My biopsy was negative. )?end of August). If I touched it or if my bra rubbed against it- it hurt. It didn’t go away or get bigger (stayed the same)
Saw my medical oncologist- she wasn’t concerned as well. Then in the middle of November, I saw my radiologist oncologist and PA- they weren’t concerned BUT the next day they called me that they had discussed about the tiny bump and wanted me to see my breast surgeon. Saw her and her PA and at first they weren’t concerned at first but they wanted to do a punch biopsy and they did
(Johns Hopkins) - took 13 days for the results 😡 and it came back positive for cancer 😭 the entire team were shocked including me!!

Sent me for another mammogram/ultrasound last week. They didn’t see anything. The radiologist explained that they don’t pick up anything on the outside of the skin. Recommended the dreaded Breast MRI and Petscan.
Had the MRI on Tuesday and Petscan today. Results are —— that tiny bump is in armpit( they believe it could be a lymph node) but I had all the lymph nodes removed during my right auxiliary dissection. My medical oncologist gave me the news this afternoon ( very impressed the results came back less then 3 hours! Anyway, I have a 4:00 video appointment tomorrow with my breast surgeon. I am very happy that there isn’t anymore cancer in my body ( just the 9mm spot)
Whew 😥 that was a lot to write. I am glad I did for you & for others to read. So if something doesn’t feel right, call your team!!

Best wishes and keep me posted 🙏🏼🙏🏼

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