abdominal pressure thoracic compression

Posted by gently @gently, Dec 13, 2023

Has anyone experienced abdominal pressure with low thoracic and lumbar compression fractures. In this case there is painful forward pressure at the level of the diaphragm. Even though, she is hungry my friend can eat very little. Her doctors say they are scratching their heads to figure out what is causing the pain. Has anyone had or heard of using emg to determine nerves involved, or might there be diaphragmatic involvement. All experience and any outside speculation or advice will be useful Thanks

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@windyshores

I get this once in awhile. I have 7 spinal fractures, half low thoracic and half lumbar. If I lift or reach, my diaphragm goes up and I feel pressure, and it is hard to eat. This situation also can trigger atrial fibrillation for me. I really sympathize. I use Gas-X (simethicone), and sometimes a hot shower can relax things down. I have taken Klonopin, rarely, to try to relax things as well. I eat small amounts at a time. If your friend always feels this pressure, it might be good to see if there is a hiatal hernia, something I need to check on as well. A GI doc would do the testing.

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Windy ,
Did they do a CT scan or did X-ray to show the spinal fractures ? I am having X-rays done today of thoracic & lumbar . I find that I am having pain after walking my 3 miles or doing daily house work .

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@kristie2

Windy ,
Did they do a CT scan or did X-ray to show the spinal fractures ? I am having X-rays done today of thoracic & lumbar . I find that I am having pain after walking my 3 miles or doing daily house work .

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X-ray. X-rays need to be 48 + hours after the fracture to prevent a false negative. Sounds like you are fine in that regard. Let us know!

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@windyshores

X-ray. X-rays need to be 48 + hours after the fracture to prevent a false negative. Sounds like you are fine in that regard. Let us know!

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kristy2,
only about 1/3 of spinal compression fractures are detected. X- ray is not excellent in this regard. If you have lost vertebral height an x-ray will suffice for detection. The pattern for osteoporotic vertebral fractures is that once you begin to fracture the fracture will deepen gradually. Don't be content if the x-ray is negative for fracture when you are having pain that seems to muscular during your regular activities. Ask for a CT scan.
I hope you are not fracturing, but it is so good if you and your doctor are catching it early.
https://www.spine-health.com/conditions/osteoporosis/diagnosing-vertebral-compression-fractures#:~:text=However%2C%20in%20the%20spine%20a,and%20pains%20that%20accompany%20aging.

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@gently

kristy2,
only about 1/3 of spinal compression fractures are detected. X- ray is not excellent in this regard. If you have lost vertebral height an x-ray will suffice for detection. The pattern for osteoporotic vertebral fractures is that once you begin to fracture the fracture will deepen gradually. Don't be content if the x-ray is negative for fracture when you are having pain that seems to muscular during your regular activities. Ask for a CT scan.
I hope you are not fracturing, but it is so good if you and your doctor are catching it early.
https://www.spine-health.com/conditions/osteoporosis/diagnosing-vertebral-compression-fractures#:~:text=However%2C%20in%20the%20spine%20a,and%20pains%20that%20accompany%20aging.

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@gently I wonder if that statistic is due to x-rays being done too early.

I had a terrible fall in 2006 and was in horrible pain for months while my doc kept telling me the x-ray was negative for fractures. I finally saw a specialist who did an x-ray and told me it takes a day or two to get an accurate x-ray of a spinal compression fracture.

I would try an x-ray first to avoid the extra radiation. And if x-ray is negative I might ask for an MRI which can also look at soft tissue I believe.

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Windyshores,
I'm not sure if the statistic includes vertebral fractures that weren't x-rayed at all.
MRI can miss fractures that are obscure, which is the way osteoporotic vertebral fractues begin. It's just those little spicules. Once they are evidenced on x-ray, you've already had loss of height. If a person plans on kyphoplasty, they can reduce the depth of crush. The same issue applies to hairline fractures in long bones, except that the hazard isn't crush but displacement.
With vertebral fractures early treatment means stopping permanent damage. Kyphoplasty can only partially restore height, though kyphoplasty has its own hazards.
The radiation issue is important.

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@windyshores

I get this once in awhile. I have 7 spinal fractures, half low thoracic and half lumbar. If I lift or reach, my diaphragm goes up and I feel pressure, and it is hard to eat. This situation also can trigger atrial fibrillation for me. I really sympathize. I use Gas-X (simethicone), and sometimes a hot shower can relax things down. I have taken Klonopin, rarely, to try to relax things as well. I eat small amounts at a time. If your friend always feels this pressure, it might be good to see if there is a hiatal hernia, something I need to check on as well. A GI doc would do the testing.

Jump to this post

I can confirm that a hiatal hernia could be the cause.

I couldn’t eat anything when I had I had the hole in my diaphragm.

I had to have a fundoplication.

Sometimes I can eat like normal people and sometimes not.

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0611945, thanks. Did you have abdominal and/or back pain.

"[T]he measurement of BTMs offers a fast and minimally invasive way to monitor the adherence and response to osteoporosis treatment. Changes in BTM markers are observed sooner than changes in bone mineral density scans. When looking at the various BTMs, CTx and P1NP are considered the best biomarkers and are the ones that are being endorsed by professional societies". https://news.mayocliniclabs.com/2023/08/07/laboratory-testing-of-bone-turnover-markers/
I was looking for a stronger recommendation. And, meanwhile, lost your post.
Some doctors are reasonable. The endocrinologist I see thinks medical necessity includes "peace of mind."
I used to share my opinion with doctors and sometimes swayed their thinking. Now I tell myself, walk on.
You don't have stronger recourse with bone markers. If we keep fighting for them our great grandchilden will get them without struggling.
One nice thing about seeing doctors serially is that you get a broader opinion. It is more work.

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@gently

Windyshores,
I'm not sure if the statistic includes vertebral fractures that weren't x-rayed at all.
MRI can miss fractures that are obscure, which is the way osteoporotic vertebral fractues begin. It's just those little spicules. Once they are evidenced on x-ray, you've already had loss of height. If a person plans on kyphoplasty, they can reduce the depth of crush. The same issue applies to hairline fractures in long bones, except that the hazard isn't crush but displacement.
With vertebral fractures early treatment means stopping permanent damage. Kyphoplasty can only partially restore height, though kyphoplasty has its own hazards.
The radiation issue is important.

Jump to this post

@gently I was suggesting MRI more for soft tissue issues if x-ray is negative. All of my fractures have shown up on x-ray (if timed right). I learned to wait a few days before going for an x-ray!

I did not do kyphoplasty.

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windyshores, you are so interesting. Did you have cascade fractures. Was there anything to help prevent the fractures from deepening, like bracing. It sounds as though you learned to recognize the feeling of fracturing.

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@gently

windyshores, you are so interesting. Did you have cascade fractures. Was there anything to help prevent the fractures from deepening, like bracing. It sounds as though you learned to recognize the feeling of fracturing.

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The fractures were, um, obvious. Extreme pain. Three were traumatic (2006) w/borderline bones, and three were osteoporotic (2021, unwise movement). I did not have a brace until much later for the 2006 fractures since my PCP kept saying the x-ray was negative. I requested a soft brace in 2021 but rarely used it- only for pain relief. I was told the brace would weaken muscles and ultimately make recovery harder.

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