Understanding advice for dealing with osteoporosis and navigating info

Posted by galactica @galactica, Apr 23, 2023

I am looking at where I went wrong following the advice to exercise, eat well and take supplements. I did all of that - religiously for 9 months and I failed and in looking and how that could have happened I have been revising my actions and the advice I followed and what went wrong so I can correct it and hopefully help others. I am embarrassed to say that it was just not obvious to me.

I was told that walking is great for osteoporosis - so I did a lot of walking. Working up to 10k steps a day - But I am now learning that walking, just walking does not build bone density if it’s leisurely, even if for long duration. It has to be at a significant pace. And of course stair climbing and the elliptical but the heart rate has to rise to a particular level as well. Find out what that is for your body.

Weight bearing exercises - that is not enough. The exercises have to specially and safely address the spine and other bones and they have to be done properly or one loses the benefit of the exercise. I needed more of some exercises and fewer of the others and squats, for example, I was not doing them properly even though I had trainers watching me. My exercise physiologist helped me with proper form.

A wide variety of vegetables is recommended - but there are fruits, vegetables and nuts that are high in oxalates. If, like me, you have an issue with oxalates or are consistently eating a high oxalate diet - spinach, Swiss chard, rhubarb, almonds, prunes - like I was - day in and day out - oxalates bind to calcium and are excreted through urine.

I was eating copious amounts of rhubarb, Swiss chard, collards, sweet potatoes, almonds, almond flour in my crackers and foods. I thought I was eating calcium rich foods that were helping me but they were making me worse. Nobody told me this could be detrimental to my particular bone health.

I know look at not only calcium content but how high the oxalate content is. So I am actually absorbing the calcium intake in and it is going to my bones. It bears looking into this. My calcium oxalate level on the 24 hr urine test was 396. I brought it down to the normal level of 21 by changing my diet alone. No medication. However I had to be diligent and I am now navigating getting enough nutrients and calcium while regulating oxalates.

It’s not enough to “eat a lot of green leafy vegetables and have your plate look like a rainbow of colors”. Because many have high or moderately high oxalate content and either need to be boiled and the water drained in order to reduce the oxalate level, or avoided altogether depending on your situation. It’s important to read up on and understand how oxalates affect bone health and I had to figure this out the hard way because no one told me, not one doctor. Until it was a problem. With osteoporosis and bone health in general, I think this is a critical piece of information. I dont understand why this is not included in the general information.

The other part of the equation is our digestive system. I realized that if my digestive system was not absorbing nutrients properly, no matter how much or how nutrient dense my diet is, if my body is not absorbing and redirecting g these nutrients to the parts of my body that need it, the benefit is greatly reduced. The digestive system has to be healthy and able to absorb the nutrients you put into it. I thought just eating a pristine healthy diet would fix this but sometimes one needs a little more support in this area.

I wanted to mention this because for me, I realized that it was not enough to know what to do, and all I was told and all I read was what to do. I know now it has everything to do with how and to ask questions and when told I am making myself crazy (vs being given answers to my questions) to go elsewhere. I am learning to ask the how’s and the whys these things are happening and to research as much as I can instead of just following what I have been told to do, which is just not enough, at least for me and my body.

And I also believe that there is this assumption that everyone with osteoporosis is going to take medication so maybe it’s not important to know. And that the medication will just fix the bones. But it is important to know. So important, whether one takes meds or not, doctors and healthcare providers have to go a big step further to offer more than the status quo of walking, weight bearing exercise and eating leafy green vegetables, as do the sites that put out information on bone health.

This is what I am learning.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

@windyshores

I am finishing Tymlos.

I referred to Reclast in my previous post, as a follow up to Prolia. Reclast is, like Fosamax, a bisphosphonate.

Yes you can go to a bisphosphonate to "lock in gains." But long term use of anti-resorptives (Prolia and bisphosphonates) carries risk of atypical femur fractures, dental issues/jaw necrosis etc. So maybe the additive effect of years on Prolia + years on an anti-resorptive are a factor in my doc's approach.

I would ask your doctor about this!

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Thank you for sharing your information. I am sorry to say I have no sense that my doctor (internist) has delved into this particular medical issue or if he has, there is poor communication going on. My sense is that he may follow some protocol (or perhaps some type of cookbook recipe) in recommending Prolia.
I did try to research Prolia before starting injections but apparently I may have missed a lot. At that time, I also had another pressing but since resolved medical issue so perhaps my effort left something to be desired. Information about treating osteoporosis seems quite scattered with little general consensus about best course among many options.
From everything I am now learning about Prolia, if I was a doctor I would recommend consultation with a patient's dentist before starting this medication.

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@galactica

I would love, if you feel comfortable sharing, the table or place where I can look at the vegetables and how to best access their nutrients with cooking. (Apologies, I didn’t see there was more to your email in my screen) I wholeheartedly believe in Chinese medicine as a a complementary method and in some cases alternative method. I practice qigong, my qigong healing practitioners and with it alone and diet and meditation (while still checking in with my doctor) avoided a third laparoscopic surgery as I saw the path I was on if I didn’t make lifestyle and energetic changes. I also healed a frozen shoulder in 4-5 weeks that two physicians (one specialist and one who had same condition) and a pt and other non doctor who had surgery, told me that it takes 18-24 months to heal. So from personal experience - healings like this are possible because I have personally experienced this and other changes in my body. But I work with my doctors, get all my tests and make the smart choices for me, like having an appendectomy instead of being offered the choice of waiting to see if it flares up again - given the randomness of it. I also Al’s myself - what if I could heal faster than what everyone is telling me? There is no guarantee but it doesn’t hurt to put positive messages and outcomes and hope in my brain (but not as a substitution for treatment).

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Sorry for the late reply! Most veggies in this attachment are not relevant to us since we can’t get them here. See attached pic in Chinese. Spinach boiling time is 5 to 10 seconds before you eat it or mix it with other food. It also mentions boiling snow peas for 2 minutes to get rid of toxin in it. It’s taste so much better and sweeter after boiling 2 minutes. It also mentions celery which I still don’t understand why need boil it. It mentions a chemical name in celery. I can’t find the English translation for it. So I still eat celery raw. I also searched food high in oxalate and learned a lot. I also searched which food should eat cooked vs raw. These subjects are all related. Recommend you to search it too.

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@rjd

Thank you for sharing your information. I am sorry to say I have no sense that my doctor (internist) has delved into this particular medical issue or if he has, there is poor communication going on. My sense is that he may follow some protocol (or perhaps some type of cookbook recipe) in recommending Prolia.
I did try to research Prolia before starting injections but apparently I may have missed a lot. At that time, I also had another pressing but since resolved medical issue so perhaps my effort left something to be desired. Information about treating osteoporosis seems quite scattered with little general consensus about best course among many options.
From everything I am now learning about Prolia, if I was a doctor I would recommend consultation with a patient's dentist before starting this medication.

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RJD - my mother was on Prolia and lost all of her teeth. My dentist simply said at this time there is no way she can maintain a functioning mouth for me if I take that medicine.
Scattered is a good definition of a medical issue that mainly affects women. I"m am stopping now as my scattered and sarcastic views often getting me into trouble.

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@windyshores

I have done a masterclass with Lani Simpson and she was at the time trying to decide which med to take. She drinks calcium citrate all day 🙂

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Hello,
I have only just now become aware of Lani Simpson and her book(s), classes, and offerings (such as offers to analyze one's scans). She doesn't accept new in person patients but will do webinars and the dexa interpretations.
I have only just begun to read a bit. I discovered the "Bone Coach" program which has apparently gone up in price over the past few years (what hasn't?) and wondered if the information one gets there is similar or quite different than that of Simpson.... anybody know of both ...? Thx

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@rjd

Why does your doctor not prescribe Prolia?

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Not everyone experiences avascularity in response to bisphosphonates. Everyone who takes Prolia will experience a flood of osteoclasts after stopping the drug. Because of the way Prolia works. Everyone who stops Prolia should take an antiresorptive. Doctors, at stride in their careers when Prolia was first hailed, have seen the damage that can ensue because they trusted the literature and prescribed the drug. These are the many who will not prescribe Prolia.
My comment is a little out of turn, I apologize.

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@windyshores

Strontium citrate is not radioactive!!!!!!!!

It is a natural mineral.

It is entirely different from this:
"Strontium-90 is a radioactive fission product produced by nuclear reactors used in nuclear power. "

As for New Chapter calcium, the strontium in that is 3.7mg, which is a minute amount. The therapeutic dose is 680mg daily. I have no idea why these supplements put a negligible amount in there but I think it is misleading at best.

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I don't think New Chapter adds the strontium. The strontium is naturally found in minute amounts in the algae from which the calcium is obtained.

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I really miss iced tea - now that I'm not supposed to drink it due to oxalates, it has become my Forbidden Fruit. My kidney stone developed while I was on Tymlos for osteoporosis. I had not had a stone prior to the Tymlos and haven't had one in the two 2+ years since stopping the Tymlos.

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