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Gleason 9: ADT before radiation

Prostate Cancer | Last Active: May 14, 2023 | Replies (42)

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@drj

I've been trying to find criteria to decide when to stop Lupron. I'm finishing 12 months, and wondering whether the side effects of Lupron are justified by the claimed improved outcomes. Myself, I've found them devastating.

I've asked my oncologist three different times the following question: at some time, someone must have compared PCA patients treated with Lupron versus those who were not. How did the two groups compare? In other words, what percent had outcomes improved by Lupron. He has always elided the question (e.g. "everyone benefits"). It must have some valued benefits for many patients. I would like know the frequency and decide for myself what risks I am taking by dropping this therapy. As of now, I feel like a dead man walking.

I would like to have some detail on a claim of 3-5 % improvement. Surely that cannot mean 95% show no improvement in outcomes. Do you know more?

Can anyone clarify this, or explain my oncologist's non -answer?

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Replies to "I've been trying to find criteria to decide when to stop Lupron. I'm finishing 12 months,..."

@drj
I have no more information on the 3%-5% claim made by my Radiation Oncologist. He pretty much answered EVERY question I asked him with a statistic, I had written them down and my wife was in the room and confirmed it. Where he got this number, I have no idea.

Your doc may be eluding the question because he believes in the drugs and believes that they'll help you even though the statistics don't support it as strongly as he believes it. Saying it "helps everyone", I'd say it's honest, it's weakening the cancer cells so slowing growth and maybe buying time. This is likely his belief. My radiation oncologist was somewhat ambivalent about me taking the drug.

My doc (RO) claims ADT drugs like Lupron, Orgovyx etc.. weaken the cancer cells by denying them food (testosterone) so that they can't grow as normal and are in a weakened condition. The rationale for this around the time of radiation is that the weakened cells are likely more effectively damaged by the radiation. (which also doesn't actually kill those cells they tell me, it alters the dna in the cell so that when it splits it produces two dead cells instead of 2 viable cancer cells.

I'm beginning to believe that my surgeon, the dr who wants me to continue the drugs, is possibly doing this for my psychological benefit, by keeping my PSA so low through the use of the drug, I'll feel better and more like I may be cured for a longer period of time. Or, perhaps he feels he's buying me time for something better to come along treatment wise. My feeling is, I won't really know anything until I've been off the ADT meds for a while and we see if the PSA stays relatively low.

Now...since we've both already taken the drug (not sure what other treatments you've been subject to at this point) it's a bit moot. The real question is "How long?" You will find doctors with differing opinions on this anywhere from 4 mos to 3 years. I'm at a year now and the surgeon wants me to keep at it another year.

I honestly don't think there is enough research in the hormone therapy field at this point to get a definitive answer. In addition, everyone's illness seems to really take it's own path, it's very difficult to have consistent disease to study. There are just too many variables in aggressiveness, status of the disease when diagnosed etc..

I think you have to make a decision for yourself, as best as you can, knowing all the variables that you can know for yourself. I plan to look at my next full panel blood test and see if there are a lot of negatives that weren't there prior to the drug. If there are, I may stop. If not, I may gut out the next year.