New and Need Guidance: What questions to ask about prostate cancer?

Posted by vulcan @vulcan, Mar 9, 2023

Hello everyone, sadly I have had to join this area of the internet which we don't wish on anybody.

I am on here because my father who is 70 had a blood work done on 1/23 with a PSA of 26 and another blood work on 2/23 with PSA 20.

We are in Michigan, USA fyi.

Completed a 3T MRI on 2/23 and today got the results showing a Pi-RADS 4 with a lession found to be the size of 8mm. The doctor also mentioned that the MRI could also see the close by lymph nodes which looked good.

The doctor ordered a Fusion Biopsy, which they will call us in the next 2 weeks to schedule a date for.

We were all caught off guard and uneducated in the matter leading to no real questions asked and following whatever the doctor says to do.

I wanted to join the forum and ask this kind group of individuals for guidance through this process.
-What questions to ask the doctor?
-What specific types of biopsies are most accurate and useful?
-Is the "Fusion Biopsy" that the doctor ordered the proper one?
-Is there other types of biopsies that we should ask for?
-Is doing a biopsy risky in any way, and can it worsen a situation?
-Is there ANY reason to avoid doing a biopsy?
-In case of bad biopsy results, what treatment options are there? (I would assume you're going to say that this completely varies until a pathology report)
-What hospitals/clinics/locations would be best to go to for the best treatment?
-Is a biopsy very likely to show cancer with a Pi-RADS 4 and lession of 8mm?
-What words of encouragement would you have for myself/my family/my father in this situation?
-Is this something to be absolutely worried sick over?
-Is this something where life goes on with manageable treatments and major or minor life altering events?
-Is this something that we should not worry too much about at all?

IF I am asking ANY dumb questions, please forgive me for my ignorance and uneducated questions. This is obviously a world that nobody wants to go into but unfortunately a lot of us are in.

Current treatment location is at:
Michigan Institute of Urology
St. Clair Shores, Michigan

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Prostate Cancer Support Group.

@gkm

Have you had a biopsy? My urologist used the MRI to provide guidance as to where the biopsy samples should be targeted. This produced a Gleason score of 3+4 and I chose surgery after having a consult with a radiation oncologist.

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No biopsy yet because there's 2 conflicting MRI reports. One Pi-RADS 4 and another a Pi-RADS 2.

Radiologists are conflicting each other.

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I was diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer tumor blockage of right kidney have a neutrastphy bag on ! Have had 3 Lupron shots and 4 chemo s ! My prostate is down to a 1 ! I’m happy ! I also have metastasized bone cancer very painful 🙏

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I am 73 and in the same boat as your dad. The 3T MRI is really accurate. I had a 7 mm lesion confined to the prostate, but my PSA was only 2.9. I had an MRI fusion biopsy which is where the doctor uses the MRI image with an ultrasound probe in your rectum to find the lesion when he takes the biopsy samples. I had a trans perineal biopsy under a local with no problems and would never have a transrectal due to two factors. One is the chance of infection from the rectum and the second is that the prostate is more assessable from the perineum.. He did a 30 core biopsy as I have a very large prostate and for mostly 3-4 Gleason but I had two cores with 4-3 Gleason which I why I elected for radiation, After the biopsy the doctors at Mayo Phoenix had me do a PSMA PET SCAN which showed that the cancer was confined to the prostate. My PSA had been in the 2.5 to 2.9 range for 5 years on my annual checkups and no one will venture a guess as to how long it was growing. I had my markers inserted last Friday along with Space Oar Gel to protect my rectum from the radiation. I hope this helps.

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@vulcan

At what point of the process did you have a PSMA scan? Before or after biopsy?

How did you get in contact with an oncologist? As of right now we are only speaking with a urologist. I'm assuming you spoke with an oncologist only after a biopsy and when you were planning treatment options?

Were you told exactly why surgery after radiation was worse than pre radiation?

Very happy to hear you are doing good right now

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The PSMA scan came after the biopsy. The reason for the PSMA scan was to see where the cancer was located in my body; the scan showed that it was confined to the prostate gland itself. It had not spread anywhere else.

My Urologist gave me information on a Radiation Oncologist and a Urologist/Surgeon, and included that he had worked with that Surgeon before.

It was my Urologist who told me that radiation did some damage to the tissue, making surgery after radiation moe challenging, while surgery removed tissue/gland and left the area viable for radiation.

Therefore, I opted for the RALP. After a long discussion with my Urologist, who had me as the last appointment of the day to give me all the time I needed. After reviewing my results and some of the articles I had collected into a binder, I told him of my choice. He then said that he would have made the same decision if those were his "numbers."

Having seem my Surgeon at a 6-month checkup, and after an ultrasensitive PSA test, my PSA is less than 0.008.

I feel truly blessed to have been given the outcome that I had. I wish this on everyone.

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@vulcan

Wanted to give people a little update, and also ask for some guidance.

Michigan Institute of Urology is the main Urologist. The MRI was ordered from Beaumont Hospital who created a report with Pi-RADS 4 finding. They did NOT offer the transparineal biopsy however.

We ended up going to University of Michigan who DOES offer the transparineal biopsy. In the mean time they ended up having their own radiologist review the MRI imaging. Their findings are that there is NO 8mm lesion but instead some small dots which only qualify as PI-RADS 2 with no chance or cancer and therefore no biopsy needed.

At this point we have 2 conflicting radiologist results. Beaumont saying Pi-RADS 4 with 8mm lesion and University of Michigan saying Pi-RADS 2 with small dots.

PSA readings are at 20 FYI.

Has ANYBODY ever experienced or heard of this before? Where do you go from here? What do you do?

We have upcoming appointments to discuss the Pi-RADS 2 findings, and all the info I just mentioned was shared with us over the phone and in writing.

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Ask for PSMA Pet scan. If it is prostate cancer, it will show, anywhere in the body. The cancer may be outside of the prostate or not even in the pelvis. That can account for the high PSA and ambiguous MRI. Also the cancer can be hidden in certain places. Such as the bladder. MRI will also not show.
PSMA Pet Scan is for the whole body. It is the classified as the most accurate test so far. That said, it can miss 10% of the cancer. Talk to your doctor about it. Hope that helps.

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@baxterlee77

I was diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer tumor blockage of right kidney have a neutrastphy bag on ! Have had 3 Lupron shots and 4 chemo s ! My prostate is down to a 1 ! I’m happy ! I also have metastasized bone cancer very painful 🙏

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I feel for you my friend. I'm glad you are happy and I hope you find ways to deal with the pain.

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@mikewo

I am 73 and in the same boat as your dad. The 3T MRI is really accurate. I had a 7 mm lesion confined to the prostate, but my PSA was only 2.9. I had an MRI fusion biopsy which is where the doctor uses the MRI image with an ultrasound probe in your rectum to find the lesion when he takes the biopsy samples. I had a trans perineal biopsy under a local with no problems and would never have a transrectal due to two factors. One is the chance of infection from the rectum and the second is that the prostate is more assessable from the perineum.. He did a 30 core biopsy as I have a very large prostate and for mostly 3-4 Gleason but I had two cores with 4-3 Gleason which I why I elected for radiation, After the biopsy the doctors at Mayo Phoenix had me do a PSMA PET SCAN which showed that the cancer was confined to the prostate. My PSA had been in the 2.5 to 2.9 range for 5 years on my annual checkups and no one will venture a guess as to how long it was growing. I had my markers inserted last Friday along with Space Oar Gel to protect my rectum from the radiation. I hope this helps.

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We're still continuing with doctor visits to decide on results of the MRI. There's still no clear answer somehow and the doctor is pushing back on the request from us to have ANOTHER MRI be performed. He is saying that the insurance won't even cover it.

On top of that he continues giving us ridiculous looks everytime that we bring up on transperineal biopsies, and defends transrectal.

Very strange.

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@vulcan

We're still continuing with doctor visits to decide on results of the MRI. There's still no clear answer somehow and the doctor is pushing back on the request from us to have ANOTHER MRI be performed. He is saying that the insurance won't even cover it.

On top of that he continues giving us ridiculous looks everytime that we bring up on transperineal biopsies, and defends transrectal.

Very strange.

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He is pushing trans rectal because he does not do transperineal and won't get paid. Google info on the advantages of transperineal. Less chance of infection and it is top to bottom of the prostate so it covers the whole gland while the transrectal is front to back and may miss areas due to bone in the way. He is probably correct about insurance not paying for a 2nd MRI. Don't back down find a doctor who will do a MRI fusion transperineal biopsy. Remember you ARE THE CUSTOMER and the doctors are providing a service. Research and studies are readily available on the net to answer your questions.

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@vulcan

No biopsy yet because there's 2 conflicting MRI reports. One Pi-RADS 4 and another a Pi-RADS 2.

Radiologists are conflicting each other.

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Remember they put their pants on one leg at a time just like you and are not perfect. Wait till you get a biopsy and get a 2nd opinion that does not agree with the first one.

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