Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

Kudos to those who manage these pages. Its get a bit confusing as many people suffer from similar things but different area, and different solutions. So Mayo seems to have the mentor who seems to suffer from the subject in charge of the group or sub topic. Makes sense to me to organize is such a way. However I do see too may new subject categories created for the same issues, that removes a topic to create new ones in line of moderators or mentors assertions. Not sure this is helpful or creating dissonance.

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@donrealtesting

Kudos to those who manage these pages. Its get a bit confusing as many people suffer from similar things but different area, and different solutions. So Mayo seems to have the mentor who seems to suffer from the subject in charge of the group or sub topic. Makes sense to me to organize is such a way. However I do see too may new subject categories created for the same issues, that removes a topic to create new ones in line of moderators or mentors assertions. Not sure this is helpful or creating dissonance.

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@donrealtesting, thank you for your feedback. Should we wish to share more, please click the blue "Feedback" triangle in the bottom right corner. We are currently conducting a survey for future upgrades and improvements.

For more information on moderation practices and the roles of moderators and volunteer mentors see here:
- Why & How Mayo Clinic Connect is Moderated https://connect.mayoclinic.org/blog/about-connect/tab/moderators/

For further questions or comments, please submit using this form https://connect.mayoclinic.org/contact-a-community-moderator/

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@colleenyoung

@donrealtesting, thank you for your feedback. Should we wish to share more, please click the blue "Feedback" triangle in the bottom right corner. We are currently conducting a survey for future upgrades and improvements.

For more information on moderation practices and the roles of moderators and volunteer mentors see here:
- Why & How Mayo Clinic Connect is Moderated https://connect.mayoclinic.org/blog/about-connect/tab/moderators/

For further questions or comments, please submit using this form https://connect.mayoclinic.org/contact-a-community-moderator/

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Thanks for that info! I did find all my post under my profile and comments. I can also locate the subject in the search bar.

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@emwilliams

I too have neuropathy in feet & hands, use a walker to get around after many falls, a few fractures too. Fortunately no pain, am concerned that one day I may lose the ability to walk, do try to keep a daily journal, though on occasion have difficulty to read what I have written! Am very slow, tell folk I have two speeds.....dead slow,...and stop!! Anyone else in a similar position?..frustration level is high, used to be a fast walker, folk were always saying "slow down, I can't keep up with you"...!!
❤️🇨🇦🙏🏼👍🤗☃️🎄🦌

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emwilliams - I can relate to your comment, for decades my wife would say slow down...I was a fast walker. Now, it is visa versa, she has to walk slow for me. I now know how she felt! I do walk with a cane from time to time, depends on distance but it is about five times slower compared to my normal pace. I think progression of PN differs with all of us so I do try to walk every day despite the difficulty. In 2015 when this started, one neuro doc told me to keep moving, keep walking. Probably best advise I've received so far.

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@jake1234

Has anyone have feet and legs get freezing at night

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YES INFACT ALL TIMES IT SEEMS NOW!
Cbd oil helps with most issues Hh

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Has anyone with PN taken the blood pressure med LOSARTAN?
I started to have numbness in two middle toes (like a string tied at the base) 15 years ago. It was diagnosed as a foot problem over the years with several podiatrist just prescribing inserts under the ball of the foot. It has progressed to numbness onto the ball of both feet (Fortunately I do not have a lot of pain). Recently I was also diagnosed with a Heart Block Complete. While researching medical web sites as to what that was, I ran across research that Losartan can be a cause/side effect! A short while later I also found another web site that mentioned PN as a rare but possible side-effect of the same med. I have since changed BP meds. Curious if the effect is permanent or may reverse? My cardiologist is not familiar with either side effect.
Any comments/info would be appreciated.

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@njed

emwilliams - I can relate to your comment, for decades my wife would say slow down...I was a fast walker. Now, it is visa versa, she has to walk slow for me. I now know how she felt! I do walk with a cane from time to time, depends on distance but it is about five times slower compared to my normal pace. I think progression of PN differs with all of us so I do try to walk every day despite the difficulty. In 2015 when this started, one neuro doc told me to keep moving, keep walking. Probably best advise I've received so far.

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I’m with you! I used to get a little annoyed because my husband has a habit of walking in front of me & my walker with his arm reached back, pulling the walker along as if that was the trick to speeding me up. I used to get perturbed (and scared) and just yell “Let go of it, let go of it!” because he couldn’t see what he was doing to me since he was walking forward. It’s still a habit, but now I just let go of the walker when he does that, and just slowly walk behind him unassisted, until he gets so far ahead of me and realizes he has my walker without a human attached. We now get a good laugh when that happens 😀. (And good for me to not use the walker if I can do without)

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@dbeshears1

I’m with you! I used to get a little annoyed because my husband has a habit of walking in front of me & my walker with his arm reached back, pulling the walker along as if that was the trick to speeding me up. I used to get perturbed (and scared) and just yell “Let go of it, let go of it!” because he couldn’t see what he was doing to me since he was walking forward. It’s still a habit, but now I just let go of the walker when he does that, and just slowly walk behind him unassisted, until he gets so far ahead of me and realizes he has my walker without a human attached. We now get a good laugh when that happens 😀. (And good for me to not use the walker if I can do without)

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ernie21 -- I had questioned my primary doc about 7 years ago about Losartan because of possible ties to PN. I've been on this drug for high blood pressure since 2010. I was told that it is unlikely to cause PN yet, when you search it on line, there seems to be some evidence. I doubt there is any test that can be performed to prove a person developed PN due to Losartan.

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@njed

emwilliams - I can relate to your comment, for decades my wife would say slow down...I was a fast walker. Now, it is visa versa, she has to walk slow for me. I now know how she felt! I do walk with a cane from time to time, depends on distance but it is about five times slower compared to my normal pace. I think progression of PN differs with all of us so I do try to walk every day despite the difficulty. In 2015 when this started, one neuro doc told me to keep moving, keep walking. Probably best advise I've received so far.

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I have had PN for 22 years and I could not agree more….keep moving and keep walking. My PN started in one toe and although the numbness and tingling has moved to my calves over the years, it is bearable. In fact there are times when I am oblivious of the problem.

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kim2 - Weird symptoms, same here. Started bottom of toes, tingle/numbness and got worse over years. From that to such numbness that I have bi-lateral drop foot and poor balance. Numbness and drop foot I can deal with, it's the balance that really annoys me. Neuro doc wants me to try physical therapy with specific exercises towards improved balance. I started a month ago, two days a week, a struggle but I am trying. So far, not a lot of improvement but things take time.

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