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Lumbar stenosis and C spine stenosis

Brain & Nervous System | Last Active: Aug 3 5:15pm | Replies (9)

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@jenniferhunter

@kat183990 I am a Mayo spine surgery patient who had stenosis in the Central canal with spinal cord compression at C5/C6. I understand your frustration and having 2 separate areas of the spine that need attention sure does confuse things. I know this because of my experience where surgeons tried to tell me I had a lumbar problem causing issues with my walking and balance. 5 surgeons missed it, then I found medical literature with cases like mine that said it was a rare presentation of symptoms of cervical cord compression. I had pain all over my body that was generated by compression of my cervical spine. That was also missed by a head of a department at a major university spine center. I had to seek an opinion elsewhere because no one would help me address this with the surgeon who made a mistake by missing the correct diagnosis. He refused to do surgery for me because he thought my issues could be something like MS because he didn't believe the C spine can generate pain in the legs and body, but it can. I have a slightly bulging L3/L4 disc which may have been enough to barely contact the spinal cord while it was being compressed in my neck. It might be that combination that contributes to this because the cord is touched in 2 places at the same time. The signals for everything in your body go through the Cervical spinal cord and when you squish that bundle, it affects something, but not neccessarily exactly the same way every time because it is supposed to float and move when you change position, but if it is tethered, moving will change where it gets compressed. My first symptom was a pain in my ankle and I could turn that on and off by turning my head in the beginning. Later on, I could not turn off the pain, but the location changed with my neck position. Later if I bent my neck, I sent an electric shock down my entire body.

I think there is a strong possibility that your balance and limb weakness is being caused by cervical cord compression as mine was. I lost muscle to atrophy in my shoulders and arms and lost so much strength that driving a car was exhausting because I could not hold my arms up. When muscle spasms moved the alignment of the vertebrae, essentially making the canal smaller, I walked with an uneven gait or limp. My physical therapist would realign it, and I walked normally again. That was confirmation that the degree of compression could affect my gait. I also had difficulty emptying my bladder because of cord compression. Incontinence is a symptom of cervical cord compression, and this was an earlier stage of that issue.

This is called funicular pain when you get referred pain from your neck to your body and you need a surgeon who understands this. There is no diagnostic test to confirm it except when you decompress the spinal cord with surgery and the pain is cured. Cervical stenosis has many risks and leads to disability. I picked my Mayo surgeon because I read a paper he coauthored on cervical stenosis that talked about leg pain and funicular pain and I looked up that term and found the medical studies. If you can travel to Mayo in Rochester, he would be a good surgeon for you to consult and he is a super nice guy. I was so impressed by what he did for me, that when I could use my arms again, I painted his portrait.

As for the comments you received about the surgeon who looked at your X rays and said you don't need cervical spine surgery.... X-rays only show the bones well, but don't show the soft tissue, and the discs are just the spaces between the bones. They may give measurements of disc height, but you won't see a picture of where herniated discs are pushing their contents. Often the extruded disc material grows bone spurs with it. You need an MRI to show this in detail. A surgeon not authorizing physical therapy after surgery is a red flag to me and that is worth further discussion. It may be that you needed further healing first, but I'm surprised you were sent back to work without PT.

My surgeon, Dr. Jeremy Fogelson is a complex spine deformity expert neurosurgeon who also has ortho spine training, and he can do fusion and artificial disc replacement. If you have swallowing issues, the approach can be through the back of the neck and that would have a more painful recovery. My surgery was anterior and I did stretching and fascial release to prepare for surgery which made it easier because my muscles were more easily retracted during surgery, and my recovery was better too. I still have to stretch because the scar tissue tends to tighten up over time.

Don't give up because your doctor is running out the door. They do that when they don't understand and they don't want to get into a situation where their surgery fails to help the patient. I think that is kind of where you are now and they don't know what to do. They pay attention to their own success ratings and don't want to jeopardize that with a failed procedure, so it easier to walk away. Mayo does have a reputation for taking cases that no one else wants. I was one of those and I was refused surgical help by 5 surgeons for 2 years before I came to Mayo for a 6th opinion. That was worth it. I didn't give up, and I learned to advocate for myself even when I was afraid of the surgery. This surgery changed my life for the better and you might be a patient just like me. If you want to try to get an appointment at Mayo, you will need all your imaging so you can send it in. They will set up a patient account and you can ask that Dr. Fogelson review your case like I did. Even if you have to wait because of your ongoing recovery, you can still do this now and get in line. He is one of Mayo's best spine surgeons and when I broke my ankle badly this past summer I contacted him and asked for a recommendation for a surgeon to fix my ankle. He sent me to a surgeon with his personal recommendation that he would trust his family in his care. That means a lot to me, and put me at ease.

Let me know if I can answer more questions. Here are some links with the medical literature that changed my life and my patient story. FYI, there is also a Mayo campus in Jacksonville, Florida, but my surgeon is in Rochester.
https://sharing.mayoclinic.org/2019/01/09/using-the-art-of-medicine-to-overcome-fear-of-surgery/
(There is also a video of me creating this painting which you can find in the Art for Healing discussion on page 24, but here is the link to that page.)
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/art-for-healing/?pg=24#chv4-comment-stream-header
https://www.mayoclinic.org/biographies/fogelson-jeremy-l-m-d/bio-20055624
Funicular Pain
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3111492/
This explains pelvis alignment issues that can mimic spine problems with sciatic pain. This is worth a read in case your pain could be caused by pelvic alignment issues. I have experienced this with overly tight hip flexors.
https://trainingandrehabilitation.com/identify-treat-lumbar-plexus-compression-syndrome-lpcs/
How to read cervical MRI
https://healthcareextreme.com/how-to-read-your-spine-mri-study/
This video (about an hour) explains a lot about cervical spine problems and treatments and shows and explains MRI images.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFPk4efcJ1g

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Replies to "@kat183990 I am a Mayo spine surgery patient who had stenosis in the Central canal with..."

Your comments are very helpful to me. I just joined Mayo Clinic connect because I am suffering from postop pain after extensive fusion of my lower spine and pelvis for spinal stenosis DISH. Two years earlier at cervical fusion for a different areas of spinal Stenosis. Is there a discussion or a group focused on helping postop patients with their issues of wound pain, postop pain, neuropathy, pain at the mental and physical health thereof. By the way, I had both my surgeries at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester and was very pleased with my care Now back in the rural community, where they are totally overwhelmed by such a complex case. I would love to find or start a discussion group with similar patients. Please advise. Thank you.