Bisphosphonates or Not? Both No Win

Here is a link to the BoneLadies excellent blog where she compares the COMB and MOTS study which includes the melatonin listed by Catcando. I have always assumed that the melatonin makes a difference for the better with bone building because the body needs the quality of sleep to grow bone or maybe it is moot and the other supplements are what made the difference, impossible to tell in a combination study like this. But bone building is obviously a synergistic action of many supplements, hormones etc. so the study makes sense in mimicking real life.

The studies follow a novel combination of melatonin and other natural bone-aiding micronutrients including: strontium citrate, vitamins D3 and K2 etc. with each study having some difference in supplement. Obviously, this combination of supplements study has its pluses and minuses. Probably most importantly these are 2 studies on strontium citrate. A welcomed supplement study which is fairly rare in the research field.

Notice the links at the bottom of the blog link which will take you to the actual studies http://strontiumforbones.blogspot.com/2017/02/mots-and-comb-study-comparison.html

Hello Kathleen and @catharbert . My bone supp has Strontium, the Ds and the Ks. But it doesn't have Boron which is VERY important at low doses under 20mg max, from what my research tells me. It's cheap so I may add it. My Strontium research says that Strontium atom is heavier than bone and it will replace bone w/ itself instead of bone and that it can alter bone density scans (DEXA). Have you come across any of this info? Thanks so much and many blessings, Sunnyflower

Your information is not quite correct. Yes, strontium is heavier than calcium but not heavier than bone. No, strontium will not replace bone; strontium will be used to grow bone scaffolding just like calcium. Yes strontium is heavier than calcium and DXA scans that are gauged to measure calcium in bone will show about 10% denser than if only calcium was present, because strontium is heavier.

Bone is made from mainly collagen and calcium phosphate, a mineral that adds strength and hardens the framework. In your bones, calcium-sensing receptors are found on osteoblasts (cells that build new bone). Strontium kick-starts osteoblasts, but not as much as calcium does.

According to one source though, see citation below, a new version of calcium-sensing receptor has been identified in osteoblasts. And this sensor seems to be activated only by strontium. In other words, your body recognizes strontium and it uses it to build bone just as it uses calcium, to add strength to the bone matrix. It has been known for awhile that strontium activates calcium sensing receptors. If this new research is borne out, about a separate receptor for strontium, then that will be a big break thru in strontium use for osteoporosis.

We already know strontium occurs naturally in water and many foods; we know that the body recognizes it and uses it similarly to calcium in bone. If strontium has its own receptor then those who have said that in the past the body was subjected to strontium regularly and in much larger amounts than now will gain a valid talking point in its use for osteoporosis. But even if this new receptor is not borne out in further study, it does not change the fact that the known calcium receptors know and use strontium to make the bone stronger. Yes, they use calcium first, but they also use strontium.
https://www.algaecal.com/algaecal-ingredients/strontium/strontium-benefits/
Indeed, recent 3d visualizations from bone biopsies of strontium users show plate like healthy bone with good mineralization. See photo inserted here with a link to the research study
https://asbmr.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1359/jbmr.071012

Good info Kathleen!! There is so much info out there. I wonder why AlgaeCal doesn't have Boron in it? My New Chapter Bone Strength has Strontium, the Ds and Ks and Mags but not Boron so I'm going to add that supp as well. From what I've read, both sound equally important. I just read a medical journal by NIH on Boron. Yes, osteoclasts and osteoblasts, I remember them well from school. I don't think any of the osteoporosis meds aka bisphosphonates, do both rebuilding and removing. Maybe some day. Well take are and thanks again for the info!!! All the best, Sunnyflower

@migizii My PCP actually referred me to a dietician for osteoporosis and when I met with the person, they gave me the strangest look and said if you’re not here about a diabetic diet, I can’t help you. Thus, I’ve been learning on my own ever since.

migzii, I am shocked that my new nutritionist knows so little about how to help me for my osteo! I think maybe my referral was about how to eat right now that I've lost 200# in the last few years (deliberately, needed it!). Unfortunately I did it on a very low calorie diet and only now just learned that low cal diets are the worst thing ever for osteo! Oy vei. Now I'm trying to reverse my osteo w/ foods and supps. Take good care, Sunnyflower @catharbert

@sunnyflower I too am doing the best I can with diet. I read a while back that many people do not realize that protein is as important as calcium! People with osteoporosis should actually get more protein than the normal recommended amount. Bones are half protein.

I wish I was better at noting the source of things, but I do generally only give credence to real medical sources. I also read just in the last week that senior citizens generally are not getting enough protein and those who do have a lower chance of dementia! I have added Fairlife 2% milk to my diet. I did it initially because it is lactose-free and I recently developed lactose intolerance. After purchasing it I discovered that it also has more calcium and protein than typical 2% milk too. I try to drink a glass or two of that a day too. I did try a protein drink they produce too, it has 30% of the required protein, but it was a bit too sweet for me.
JK

Hello JK! What great info here! Glad you found out what to do and are doing it w/ your diet! I told my Endocrinologist today that my Rheumatologist who began me on Prednisone in the early 1990s and two of my Rheumatologists since then and three of my Endocrinologists since then never told me that I may not ever be able to get off it nor did any of them tell me to take calcium, D and/or what my diet should be. My sweet Endo now said that it wasn't only recently they understood about these nutrients and the rold they play. That's hard for me to believe. Now I am steroid dependent. My adrenal glands bit the dust. I lost 200# and didn't have any dairy for about 3 years!!!! And, I ate a very low 8-900 calorie diet which is the worst thing I could have done!!! I did however, eat proteing and ate fit. I just recently learned from my nutritionist that the vitamin Ds need fat to activate them to help with calcium absorption! I have been eating almost no fat either in the last few years. I can't believe it. Oh well, onward and forward! I'm doing it correctly now with my nutritionist whom, BTW, I asked for! Prayers and wishes for ZERO pain and peace for your soul, Sunnyflower @migzii

Thank you Kathleen! My bone supp, New Chapter Bone Strength has the D3 and Ks plus strontium but not boron so I bought boron for cheap, and take it with the Bone Strength. I also just learned from my nutritionist that in order for vitamin D to help the calcium be absorbed, there needs to be fat in the diet preferably in the meal you are taking the supplement with. I never realized there was such a significant amount of the diet that does need to be fat butt since I have been dieting seriously for 3 years and have lost 200 pounds, I realized that I harmed myself terribly in regard to osteoporosis, by eating such a low-fat low-calorie diet. Hindsight is 20/20. Thank you very much for the links! Hope you are doing well and warmest wishes, Sunny flower. 😊. @catahrbert

Sunnyflower, the strontium in New Chapter Bone Strength is useless because it is combined with calcium. The body seems to always choose calcium over strontium if taken together, at least that is what current research suggests. So it is best to take calcium and strontium apart from one another. Strontium late at night is usually best. It does bother me that the research for New Chapter seems to be flawed.

I have never understood the concern about cutting nutritious fat out of the diet. The body needs fat. In fact if you add fat to carbos the body is less likely to store carbohydrates as fat...so lots of butter on baked potatoes please.

When my husband decided he needed to lost 40 lbs, he bought a blood glucose monitoring device to see what raised his glucose levels. He then culled those items which were almost all carbos, especially potatoes, rice and bakery items from his diet. Then he added lots of fat and protein. The lbs melted away. After he lost the weight and started adding items bk into his diet he made sure to keep lots of fat in the equation because the fat slows down the glucose rise. Bottom line eating fats in combination with carbohydrates can affect how quickly the carbohydrates are absorbed in the digestive tract, potentially leading to a slower, more sustained rise in blood glucose levels.

Thanks for the information about boron. I eat lots of nuts, raisins, beets. Still, after reading the research I think that 3mg of boron would be prudent for especially hormone regulation during menopause.

Warmest wishes to you also, Sunnyflower.