Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@avmcbellar

Hi @fal nice to hear from you. I am glad you will continue with exercising which always seems to have its benefits specifically with circulation as with you. Circulation stimulates the growth of new nerve cells. It can slow down the progression of neuropathy. Time will go by regardless of what you do so you might as well do something positive for yourself. You never know where it may lead. I have neuropathy and muscle weakness as a result of my AVM four years ago. I have found strengthening my torso has stopped my falls. My reaction time with movements is much quicker allowing me to maintain my balance. I haven’t had a fall in over 3 years but if I do I am able to use my hands to cushion my fall and sustain less injuries. Besides improved circulation that is a good motivator to keep exercising for me. We don’t need more health issues to deal with, lol. My imbalance issues have limited my exercise routines. I do 10 minute sessions many times throughout the day. I use a mini stepper and mini cycle machine. I want to add a third inexpensive machine for extending my exercise routines. There are foldable treadmill machines($150) that do not use electricity and therefore can be placed anywhere in a room. They have the handles for balance. I thought to use the treadmill while watching TV. Is this low aerobic activity something you can do? Have you thought about this form of exercise? If you find your legs become weak after your exercise perhaps consider a less duration but do the exercise more often in the day. The weakness I experience is immediately following the exercise activity and very short lived. Wish you well. Toni

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@fal, @avmcbellar, Thanks to you both for sharing your thought provoking posts and for steps you are taking with exercise. Like you, Fal, I've begun putting more emphasis on core strengthening. The foldable treadmill sounds appealing. If you purchase one, hope you'll let us know if you find it helpful.

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@johnbishop

@avmcbellar @helennicola, I used to have a combination elliptical and exercise bike and upgraded to a Teeter FreeStep Recumbent Cross Trainer that gives you both lower body and upper body exercise. It's one of the best investments I've made in a long time. About a month ago I decided to focus more on core body strength and bought their FitForm Strength Trainer that lets you work on pretty much all of your muscle groups. They have great videos you can watch online with an iPad or mobile device to walk you through each of the different exercises.

FreeStep - https://teeter.com/freestep/ (I got the cheaper one and really like it)
FitForm - https://teeter.com/fitform/

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Thanks for these links, @johnbishop. I am interested in the freestep. Was the assembly difficult for someone not mechanical? Smiles

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@fiesty76

Thanks for these links, @johnbishop. I am interested in the freestep. Was the assembly difficult for someone not mechanical? Smiles

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@fiesty76 - My daughter and son-in-law assembled it for me. I don't think it was terribly hard but it comes in a large box which requires a couple of people to move. Here's a time lapse YouTube video of the assembly - https://youtu.be/ef5OmsKTgN8. Also, they tell you to download the BILT app which has detailed how to setup instructions along with photos which I thought were really good instructions.
https://biltapp.com/

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Thanks, @johnbishop, for the added information on assembly. I have a mechanically astute friend who probably would be willing to assemble for me. I'll share the assembly links with him as well.

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I also have been diagnosed with SFPN (August 2019) which is only affecting my feet. I have no burning or tingling. My only issue is that I feel discomfort when standing, like I am walking on rocks. If I am not standing I have no discomfort. I do have advanced osteoarthritis in both knees. Ironically my right knee is more affected than my left knee and my right foot is more affected than my left foot as far as the SFPN goes. I have read that osteoarthitis could produce SFPN symptoms. I also have autoimmune history in my immediate family. I have also read that their is a link between autoimmunity and SFPN I am looking for someone who can help get to the root of what is causing my SFPN if that is possible. Suggestions on who or where I may find help? Sorry if I did not post this correctly as I am very new to this site. Thanks

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@patc55

I also have been diagnosed with SFPN (August 2019) which is only affecting my feet. I have no burning or tingling. My only issue is that I feel discomfort when standing, like I am walking on rocks. If I am not standing I have no discomfort. I do have advanced osteoarthritis in both knees. Ironically my right knee is more affected than my left knee and my right foot is more affected than my left foot as far as the SFPN goes. I have read that osteoarthitis could produce SFPN symptoms. I also have autoimmune history in my immediate family. I have also read that their is a link between autoimmunity and SFPN I am looking for someone who can help get to the root of what is causing my SFPN if that is possible. Suggestions on who or where I may find help? Sorry if I did not post this correctly as I am very new to this site. Thanks

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Hi @patc55, Welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I have SFPN which started in the toes in both feet more than 20 years ago. I don't have pain with mine either but like you it's more of a discomfort. I also have advanced degenerative arthritis in my left knee and had a knee replacement done for my right knee in 2019. There is some evidence linking SFPN and autoimmune diseases.

"Systemic autoimmune conditions linked to SFPN include lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, sarcoidosis, vasculitis and celiac. Sjögren's is the most common among these Virtually nothing is known about how systemic autoimmune diseases affect small fibers. Nov 3, 2017"
- IVIg for apparently autoimmune small-fiber polyneuropathy: first analysis of efficacy and safety: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5791555/

If you are looking for more information to learn more about your diagnosis, here are a couple of websites I have found helpful:
- Neuropathy Commons: https://neuropathycommons.org/
- The Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy: https://www.foundationforpn.org/

Were you diagnosed by a neurologist? Just wondering if they gave you a specific diagnosis or did they just say it was idiopathic SFPN which is my diagnosis.

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I have neuropathy thought to be related to Uloric, a medication for Gout. The Gout rarely flares about once a year. PNP is of 20 year's duration and progressed as predicted, that is first feet and then lower legs then hands. the progress was slow but inevitable. I coped without medicines. First take a never-say-die stance. The best treatment is exercise. I am a lifetime exerciser both running and lifting weights. The gym is safer, with controlled weight machines. I can still run on the treadmill because of the rails. I still walk without aids but being alert because of balance problems. Normal balance classes generally are not effective because we are not normal. Only a person with PNP is likely to be successful at addressing our balance problem. I am 91 years old and advise Persistence and attitude.

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@johnbishop

Hi @patc55, Welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I have SFPN which started in the toes in both feet more than 20 years ago. I don't have pain with mine either but like you it's more of a discomfort. I also have advanced degenerative arthritis in my left knee and had a knee replacement done for my right knee in 2019. There is some evidence linking SFPN and autoimmune diseases.

"Systemic autoimmune conditions linked to SFPN include lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, sarcoidosis, vasculitis and celiac. Sjögren's is the most common among these Virtually nothing is known about how systemic autoimmune diseases affect small fibers. Nov 3, 2017"
- IVIg for apparently autoimmune small-fiber polyneuropathy: first analysis of efficacy and safety: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5791555/

If you are looking for more information to learn more about your diagnosis, here are a couple of websites I have found helpful:
- Neuropathy Commons: https://neuropathycommons.org/
- The Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy: https://www.foundationforpn.org/

Were you diagnosed by a neurologist? Just wondering if they gave you a specific diagnosis or did they just say it was idiopathic SFPN which is my diagnosis.

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John, I was diagnosed by Dr. John England who is the head of the LSU School of Medicine Neurology in New Orleans, Louisiana. Dr. England did extensive testing before rendering my diagnosis. He could not put his finger on a cause or remedy at the time. I guess what I am looking for is someone who can help figure this out. I understand that no one may ever be able to figure it out. I saw a video of a neurologist in Austin Texas who i was very impressed with only to learn that their clinic only treats people who are Texas residents. Do the Mayo Clinic have any part of their clinic that would specialize in diagnosing causes of SFPN ? Thank very much for responding.

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@hcuo

I have neuropathy thought to be related to Uloric, a medication for Gout. The Gout rarely flares about once a year. PNP is of 20 year's duration and progressed as predicted, that is first feet and then lower legs then hands. the progress was slow but inevitable. I coped without medicines. First take a never-say-die stance. The best treatment is exercise. I am a lifetime exerciser both running and lifting weights. The gym is safer, with controlled weight machines. I can still run on the treadmill because of the rails. I still walk without aids but being alert because of balance problems. Normal balance classes generally are not effective because we are not normal. Only a person with PNP is likely to be successful at addressing our balance problem. I am 91 years old and advise Persistence and attitude.

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I take only a very small BP medication so I don't think it is medication related. Thanks very much for reaching out.

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@johnbishop

Hi @patc55, Welcome to Mayo Clinic Connect. I have SFPN which started in the toes in both feet more than 20 years ago. I don't have pain with mine either but like you it's more of a discomfort. I also have advanced degenerative arthritis in my left knee and had a knee replacement done for my right knee in 2019. There is some evidence linking SFPN and autoimmune diseases.

"Systemic autoimmune conditions linked to SFPN include lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, sarcoidosis, vasculitis and celiac. Sjögren's is the most common among these Virtually nothing is known about how systemic autoimmune diseases affect small fibers. Nov 3, 2017"
- IVIg for apparently autoimmune small-fiber polyneuropathy: first analysis of efficacy and safety: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5791555/

If you are looking for more information to learn more about your diagnosis, here are a couple of websites I have found helpful:
- Neuropathy Commons: https://neuropathycommons.org/
- The Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy: https://www.foundationforpn.org/

Were you diagnosed by a neurologist? Just wondering if they gave you a specific diagnosis or did they just say it was idiopathic SFPN which is my diagnosis.

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John, I will also look at these websites. Thanks again.

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