Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@fiesty76

Thank you, @sunnyflower, for sharing your therapist's remarks; they are certainly "thought worthy". And what you post , that " We all walk through many fires here on Earth in this lifetime. We all have different human endurance thresholds and mental health thresholds." is so true as well. My sil lost both parents within a yr of each other in high school. I shall always value his response when asked how he managed to survive and then work his way through college and beyond: "It isn't the tragedy that happens to us but how we choose to deal with it that matters most".

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@fiesty76 It's all about choices we have to make isn't itn

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@fiesty76

@lioness, Linda, willing to try anything! Thanks for the tip. Particularly concerned about kamama94…doing ok on her new dialysis? I know this is off topic but truly concerned about this great kidney contributor. Thx for understanding.

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@fiesty76 Ginger had been keeping up with her She did have 1dialysis treatment haven't heard lately

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@avmcbellar

Hi @afirefly Is this book relatively new with up to date information? I believe in neuroplasticity. It engages the brain to develop new pathways for tasks it once did. In other words, you teach your brain to do a task using a different pathway of nerves it used before. Pretty interesting concept. I must say it involves discipline, time, and patience. In some cases it took as long as a year to achieve change. I am using neuroplasticity to correct my diplopia caused by the nerves of my eye muscles. The movements of the eyes do not synchronize with each other thus resulting in 2 images, the diplopia. At 3 months I have seen positive changes but my eyes have not completely aligned yet. I also have neuropathy and balance issues. I have noticed yesterday after a month, the exercises for balance are becoming easier. I will advance to another exercise for balance improvement. Thanks, Toni

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hi @avmcbellar. The copyright for the "Better Balance" book is 2017. Your diplopia could be contributing to your imbalance.

In case you did not already know, prisms can be fitted into eyeglasses to offset your diplopia. The prisms do not cure the diplopia but they do remove the second image whenever you wear the glasses.

For more info, you can go to the website:
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-double-vision-can-often-be-effectively-treated/

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@fiesty76

@johnbishop, When you stop being bombarded by my questions and remarks and can come up for some much needed air...vbg...would you mind sharing what supplements you find helpful for pn?

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@afirefly

hi @avmcbellar. The copyright for the "Better Balance" book is 2017. Your diplopia could be contributing to your imbalance.

In case you did not already know, prisms can be fitted into eyeglasses to offset your diplopia. The prisms do not cure the diplopia but they do remove the second image whenever you wear the glasses.

For more info, you can go to the website:
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-double-vision-can-often-be-effectively-treated/

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Thank you Flamingo @afirefly. I appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately my diplopia was caused by nerve damage related to my AVM(ArteroVenousMalformation). Prisms do not offer help because of the torsion with my eyes. I checked with a neuro ophthalmologist. I may consider strabismus surgery for the eye alignment correction. The surgical adjustment is very small. I run the risk of an over adjustment. In that scenario, the prism will help. So in the meantime I am trying the neuroplasticity on my own. I have looked into the possibility of eye exercises at a doctor’s office. Not only is it costly but very inconvenient to visit the office each time. You would think with vision problems an alternate method would make more sense. I had recommended virtual visits using computer software for the eye exercises. The office is not accommodating at all. Who needs that inconvenience? Oh well, good luck to that business! I had a friend in PA who benefited from eye exercises. It eventually eliminated her diplopia completely. She no longer needed a prism in her glasses! Thank you for your suggestion. My lack of balance stems from the nerve damage created by the AVM. The neuropathy resulted from the last surgery to correct my AVM. I had A total of 3 surgeries. My AVM involved the junction of 5 blood vessels in my brain, namely the cerebellum. It is the same part of the brain affected when one drinks. That is where the lack of coordination or balance comes in. Thanks again, Toni

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@fiesty76

@johnbishop and others, I'm laughing at your comment about being "a work in progress"...aren't we all???? vbg
I'm going back this morning to read all posts and copy links from this new sub-group because of my shaky access to the group at large.

Athletic most of my life, it became disturbing when I began noticing more trouble with balance a few years ago and long before the neuropathy diagnosis. Thx for the balance link! Balance in all areas of life is goal worthy at any time (and harder for some of us than others, speaking from personal experience..lol) but when we depend on our legs & feet to get us from point A to B, it becomes critically important. Want to read through other posts and then read the great links being posted here. I started a word doc. some time ago for Mayo Connect posts and links for later reference and these will be read with great interest.

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Hello @fiesty76 and @johnbishop, hope this finds you doing as well as you can be. Could you please tell me what the new sub-group is? Balance? And, how to get into it. Via topic under discussions? Thanks so much. I've joined the bone/joint/muscle group as well so won't be around as much as usual, at least for a while. I think. No idea what that group is like i.e., how active they are. I think the world of you guys and thank you so much, Sunnyflower

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@sunnyflower

Hello @fiesty76 and @johnbishop, hope this finds you doing as well as you can be. Could you please tell me what the new sub-group is? Balance? And, how to get into it. Via topic under discussions? Thanks so much. I've joined the bone/joint/muscle group as well so won't be around as much as usual, at least for a while. I think. No idea what that group is like i.e., how active they are. I think the world of you guys and thank you so much, Sunnyflower

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Hi @sunnyflower. Go to the email you recieved through the Mayo Clinic labeled “Daily Digest”. You can select a group from there to start a discussion. Hope this helps. Toni

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Already done! Thanks so much Toni! 👍😊

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@afirefly

hi @avmcbellar. The copyright for the "Better Balance" book is 2017. Your diplopia could be contributing to your imbalance.

In case you did not already know, prisms can be fitted into eyeglasses to offset your diplopia. The prisms do not cure the diplopia but they do remove the second image whenever you wear the glasses.

For more info, you can go to the website:
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-double-vision-can-often-be-effectively-treated/

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Hello Flamingo and @avmcbellar and @johnbishop, this is probably a dumb question but can the prisms be removed from the glasses lenses or are they permanent? I have diplopia off and on throughout the day as well as some other vision disturbances like if I'm reading a sentence, that sentence can appear below that sentence although a little lighter. Then I also have the traditional double vision. So, another question, when I am not having those two vision problems, will the prisms in the glasses lenses affect my vision regular at all? If not then it wouldn't matter if they are in the glass lenses permanently or not. BTW, these would be in my prescription glasses that I am asking about. Thank you so much, Sunny flower

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@fiesty76

Thank you, @sunnyflower, for sharing your therapist's remarks; they are certainly "thought worthy". And what you post , that " We all walk through many fires here on Earth in this lifetime. We all have different human endurance thresholds and mental health thresholds." is so true as well. My sil lost both parents within a yr of each other in high school. I shall always value his response when asked how he managed to survive and then work his way through college and beyond: "It isn't the tragedy that happens to us but how we choose to deal with it that matters most".

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Hi @johnbishop and fiesey76, yes, how we choose to deal with these traumatic issues is everything. It has also been my experience, that we don't necessarily get over them rather we get through them. This story in particular is heartbreaking. I lost my mom when I was 10, unexpectedly, and there were six of us little kids. But to lose both parents at a young age, wow, that's pretty heavy-duty! Take great care of yourself and warmest regards, Sunny flower

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