Neuropathy: Numbness only, no pain

Posted by John, Volunteer Mentor @johnbishop, Sep 10, 2020

When I was first diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber peripheral neuropathy and numbness was my only symptom, my neurologist told me that I am one of the "lucky" few who didn't also have pain and other associated symptoms of neuropathy. I knew there were others out there but yesterday I met my first member on Connect who has a similar diagnosis. I want to thank that member for joining Mayo Clinic Connect and sending me a private message that I would like to answer here to start this discussion.

Hello @afirefly, Welcome to Connect. You mentioned being diagnosed with large fiber demyelinating predominately sensory peripheral neuropathy at Mayo Clinic. The neurologist's recommendation was exercise and balance exercises. Your symptoms are less than one year and are primarily progressive loss of sensation in your hands and feet. You also said aside from occasional muscle cramps in your calves and dyesthesias in hands and feet, you experience little discomfort. Your greatest concern now is the degree of disability you will have as the numbness progresses.

I can tell you that we think a lot alike. When I walked out of the neurologists office with similar symptoms of just numbness in the feet and lower legs with no pain – and no recommendations for treatment, I was pretty down. I was told to let them know as the condition progressed and my biggest fear at the time was not being able to drive myself. That's when I started doing my own research and found Mayo Clinic Connect after being diagnosed with idiopathic small fiber PN.

You have some really good and thoughtful questions which I will try to answer the best I can.

Question: Although you have improved on the Protocol, did you ever have complete loss of sensation in your feet? I ask because I truly dread the possibility of total sensory loss in my feet.

Answer: I never had a complete loss of sensation in my feet. At the worst, they felt numb and sometimes tingly but not painful, just uncomfortable. They mostly always feel cold and after being diagnosed with lymphedema I have to wear compression socks which doesn't help the numbness feeling. I have noticed that it seems like I've had some feeling returning ever so often when I'm exercising on my crossfit exercise bike. I use it several times a day for 30 to 45 minutes when I can to build up leg and arm strength. I recently purchased a device called a Sand Dune Stepper to work on my balance issues. I do think it helps and I've noticed a little more feeling in the bottom of my feet – if that makes sense for numb feet. Website – https://www.sanddunestepper.com/
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, are you still able to drive a car?
If yes, would you kindly tell me what maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while driving?

Answer: I am still able to drive a car. The numbness was always a concern in my mind but never kept me from feeling the pressure of placing my feet on the pedals and pushing them down or letting them up.
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Question: Assuming you have little or no sensation in your toes and the soles of your feet, how difficult is it for you to walk? Before my neuropathy, if my foot was in a position too long it would "go to sleep" from lack of circulation to the nerves. The sensation would return seconds later once I changed my foot position. However, I don't believe I would have been able to walk on that sleeping foot until the circulation had been restored. Please tell me if there are/were any maneuvers/measures you have used over the years to compensate for the absence of feeling in your feet while walking.

Answer: When I was in my late 40s, my wife would sometimes tell me that I walk like an old man and now I am one and still walking the same. I've always been slow getting up and slow to take the first steps when walking. I guess I would call it trying to be careful because I wasn't sure of my footing. I think recognizing that your feet may not be as steady is a good thing and keeps you alert when walking. I struggle with walking any distance due to lower back issues. I recently had some physical therapy to learn some back and stomach muscle strengthing exercises which has helped some. Now I just have to execute a plan to do them often.
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Question: You indicated that the cost of the old Protocol was under $10/day (prior to 525 Protocol) several years ago and that the current 525 Protocol is $6.44/day. Does that mean Protocol 525 these days costs somewhat less than the old (original) Protocol?

Answer: Each item in the original protocol lasted a different number of days so the cost was more spread out and roughly calculated at under $10/day. The new 525 Protocol is a 30 day supply for $6.44/day ($193.20). It's also fewer pills to swallow which I really like. The Ramp up version is different due to the R-ALA in the regular 30 day supply. The daily R-ALA dosage is 1200 mg which causes some people to have stomach problems so the ramp up is to gradually increase the dosage to get use to the higher amount. I never had an issue because I was already taking supplements for the PN from my research and was taking that amount of ALA before I found the original protocol. Related discussion — Have you tried the new Protocol 525 product for neuropathy relief?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/have-you-tried-the-new-protocol-525-product-for-neuropathy-relief/
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Question: Do you use orthotics or inserts in your shoes? Special shoes?

Answer: I've tried some orthotics and different inserts but don't always use them. I found some felt/wool inserts that I like during the winter time as an extra cushion. I do like Sketchers because of the memory foam cushion and comfort. I used to wear the canvas shell ones but my neurologist told me it would be best to wear shoes with good side support for walking. So, I try to choose slip-ons with good side support made out of leather. There is another discussion on Connect you might find helpful for shoes – If the shoe fits…right?: https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/if-the-shoe-fits-right/
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Question: Besides daily foot exams, lotion to your feet, and avoiding barefoot walking, are there any other measures you use to protect your numb feet?

Answer: For me, this all started with a trip to the ER after waking up one night to go to the bathroom and when reaching the bathroom seeing blood all over the floor and trying to figure out where it's coming from. Surprised was I to see it pumping in a small stream from my ankle. Long story short, I unconciously rubbed my feet during the night and I had a hang nail on my big toe which tore the skin and part of a vein close to the surface. After that episode, I always wear white short loose socks to bed and I apply lotion to my feet and legs to keep them moisturized. I think that also helps with the healing process when you think that there are tiny sensory nerves just under the skin and it helps to keep the skin moist to protect them.

Hope this helps…let me know if I missed anything or if you have any other questions. We have a great group of members with a lot of experience here on Connect.

John

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

@jesfactsmon

@johnbishop @user_che214927
John, Barry, you both are doing fantastic work on yourselves. Barry you look great, you do too John (in the article Lee linked to). I admire you guys for the work you are doing on yourselves. I have a difficult time with indoor equipment. I get too bored, even with a tv on. So I hope to continue taking exercise outdoors as long as I can. Best, Hank

PS: Barry I have started the brain book by Doige. It starts out interesting from the first page.

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@jesfactsmon, Ditto here, Hank, for indoor exercise with equipment! Walks and gardening on what I rely on. Gave away a stationary bike because I utterly failed in the self-discipline task. That's why I've procrastinated in buying other equipment. Poor excuse I know.

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@fiesty76

@user_che214927 @johnbishop and others, Barry, I'm laughing because I shied away from telling my age to others most of my life. Now, from one 77yr younger to another, John, I can laugh and repeat what another fabulous contributor to the kidney Connect forum has written: "Today is a great day to be alive". Soo true! Yes?

Question for John or another, What to ask neurologist about what specific type of pn I have? All I was told was pn??? I had both the blood/urine and electrode tests but are different ones needed to better define the type of pn?

John, have yet to try compression socks because I don't have the dreaded, painful lymphedema you have. My close friend did find help and relief from the compression adustable arm wraps prescribed for hers. Now wondering if the socks would help my pn too?

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@fiesty76, I would think the question to the neurologist from me if told I have peripheral neuropathy would be - Can you be more specific? What type of PN do I have? The compression socks just address the swelling in the feet and legs and really don't help with the neuropathy symptoms (in my non medical opinion) but do make your legs a little more uncomfortable.

This short video by Matthew B Jensen Assistant Professor of Neurology, University of Wisconsin that gives a good explanation of how the different neuropathies are diagnosed.

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@lioness

@user_che214927 Hi I'm Linda /Lioness I've been following this conversation and have neuropathy what is this neuroplasticity? Is there any information on it I'd like to try it my arms ,hands and thighs are a involved I have cold feet all the time is this caused by neuropathy?

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Hi, friend, Linda @lioness. Glad to "see" you here! Lost access to Connect again and frustrated. Have been missing our walking group and others. So far this is the only group I've been able to access over the past few days. Hope you and all other members are remaining safe from the horrific CA and northwestern state fires! I'm going to learn more about neuroplasticity as well. Take care.

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@fiesty76 Nice to hear from you I had to log back in in order to get all the groups I signed up for Try this see if it works for you. Suemin is walking and takeing care of her grands cool to hear My son called and said they where heading to home depot to get a cell phone kit everything included Aabid is going to put it together isn't that something a cell phone number kit he said they are made in Croatia ? Amazing 🤩

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@johnbishop

@cnn That pretty much sums neuropathy up, no cure and only treatments to help with the symptoms. I take supplements to give the nerves what they need to heal themselves at a cellular level...whether that really happens is another question. I do that more with hope that it's slowing or stopping the inevitable progression and so far I feel pretty good that it has in my case.

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@johnbishop, When you stop being bombarded by my questions and remarks and can come up for some much needed air...vbg...would you mind sharing what supplements you find helpful for pn?

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@fiesty76

Thanks, stefspad, for this suggestion: "Best advice from my PT: whenever you think of it — whether standing, sitting or lying down — clench your buttocks for five seconds. You can't just think about your feet and hands, you have to consider the source: legs, arms, shoulders, buttocks and spine." This makes so much sense to me. Appreciate it too because with hypotension, I learned that if my b.p. suddenly dropped low enough to make me dizzy, clenching my fists tightly until I could sit down helped the blood circulation.

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Hi @fiesty76 When you are in a sitting or lying position get up very slowly to prevent your blood pressure from dropping. Sounds like you may have orthostatic hypotension. That can be a fall risk so be careful. I also have low blood pressure. Whenever I start to black out from feeling faint, I immediately lower my head to my knees and that stops it. Best wishes to you, Toni.

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@sunnyflower

Hello @fiesty76, @johnbishop, I saw this post and just wanted to repeat something I shared some time back that I do not know if you saw.

I once saw a very wise therapist showed me that minimizing my own circumstance was counterproductive to my well-being and mental health.

We all walk through many fires here on Earth in this lifetime. We all have different human endurance thresholds and mental health thresholds.

Most often, while we are thinking someone else's hardships are much worse than our own, they are thinking the same thing; that hours are worse than theirs.

The only thing that works for me is that I know and trust God cares deeply about the details in my/our life/s and that He has a higher purpose in them.

Also knowing and experiencing His ever presence and immeasurable, vast, boundless, sacrificial, unmerrited, deep love for me/us brings me a lot of comfort and His peace through Christ that surpasses all human understanding, Philippians 4:7.

Not to mention the promises we have in eternal life, among which is a new body-Philippians 3:21 and no more tears- Revelation 3:24 ""And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.-" blessed be the Lord... According to all that He promised; not one word has failed of all His good promise" . 1st Kings 8:56. I can't wait!!

I hope you have a special weekend. I care deeply about your well-being. Sunnyflower 😊

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Thank you, @sunnyflower, for sharing your therapist's remarks; they are certainly "thought worthy". And what you post , that " We all walk through many fires here on Earth in this lifetime. We all have different human endurance thresholds and mental health thresholds." is so true as well. My sil lost both parents within a yr of each other in high school. I shall always value his response when asked how he managed to survive and then work his way through college and beyond: "It isn't the tragedy that happens to us but how we choose to deal with it that matters most".

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@afirefly

To John, Barry, and others who are actively trying to reverse some of their neuropathy symptoms, I would like to recommend a book that I bought on Amazon.com last week. It is called, "Better Balance-Simple exercises to improve stability and prevent falls." The book is easy reading and only 50 pages. It is a Harvard Medical School Special Health Report. The lead editor is Dr Suzanne Salamon.

While many of our neuropathies are not curable, our nervous system, as Barry pointed out, has some degree of plasticity.
Balance is an area where there is plasticity--where we can compensate for something our neuropathy took away. The short book, written for the layperson, discusses the organs that determine balance. It discusses common causes of imbalance. And it gives many exercises that can be done to improve balance. Price is $20. Money well-spent in my opinion.

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Thanks, @firefly. This is another good reference to follow up on!

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@fiesty76

@user_che214927 @johnbishop and others, Barry, I'm laughing because I shied away from telling my age to others most of my life. Now, from one 77yr younger to another, John, I can laugh and repeat what another fabulous contributor to the kidney Connect forum has written: "Today is a great day to be alive". Soo true! Yes?

Question for John or another, What to ask neurologist about what specific type of pn I have? All I was told was pn??? I had both the blood/urine and electrode tests but are different ones needed to better define the type of pn?

John, have yet to try compression socks because I don't have the dreaded, painful lymphedema you have. My close friend did find help and relief from the compression adustable arm wraps prescribed for hers. Now wondering if the socks would help my pn too?

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@fiesty76 I have a friend who had neuropathy(don’t know which type). After trying compression socks, her neuropathy went away. It never came back. I was unsuccessful in my attempt. You won’t know until you try it so give it a shot. It may work for you. Toni

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@lioness

@fiesty76 Nice to hear from you I had to log back in in order to get all the groups I signed up for Try this see if it works for you. Suemin is walking and takeing care of her grands cool to hear My son called and said they where heading to home depot to get a cell phone kit everything included Aabid is going to put it together isn't that something a cell phone number kit he said they are made in Croatia ? Amazing 🤩

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@lioness, Linda, willing to try anything! Thanks for the tip. Particularly concerned about kamama94…doing ok on her new dialysis? I know this is off topic but truly concerned about this great kidney contributor. Thx for understanding.

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