Bone Health Trestment

Posted by jwmusic65 @jwmusic65, Feb 13 2:47pm

Looking for otc possibilities during breast cancer treatment. I am currently on Anastrozole. Looking at an otc supplement called AlgaeCal. Am open to suggestions. This supplement is directed toward bone health.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

Profile picture for oopsiedaisy @oopsiedaisy

@kathleen1314 Thanks for the links. Bottom line is that there are no peer reviewed, phase 3, double blinded, controlled studies on strontium citrate to reduce fracture risk. At best, it remains a supplement that may help but is not FDA approved for the treatment of osteoporosis. Perhaps one day it will be studied in this nature but doubt it will be because there is no ROI for drug or supplement companies.

I understand why some people take it, though, in the hopes it will help increase their BMD and thus reduce their fracture risk. There does seem to be some evidence for this in animal studies.

It’s an interesting supplement. I have considered taking it at times but have been hesistant due to the effect on DEXA and the lack of scientific research on strontium citrate for fracture reduction. This is the gold standard for me, having experienced an osteoporosis-related fracture in the past. My BMD has been quite stable over the years and not that low so I don’t put too much weight on it for my treatment.

Unfortunately, one cannot extrapolate studies on strontium ranelate to strontium citrate. Two chemical compounds carrying the same atom will not always have the same level of absorption or outcome in our bodies. An example of this would be thinking that sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate have the same effect in our bodies because they both carry a sodium atom.

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@oopsiedaisy Like you, I have/am considering taking Strontium supplements. Significantly worse T-scores than I have now would most likely push me over the threshold and I would take SrC now. Strontium may well significantly help reduce fractures. But Sr comes at a cost of probably making your DEXA scan appear artificially inflated with bone density looking better than is the case. And that cost lasts 10+ years.

The Mirza study link that @kathleen1314 helpfully provides above includes the below excerpts of the type of information that still makes me hang back from Sr:

"... Due to its high molecular weight, this 1% incorporation of Sr causes an
average overestimation of BMD of 10% [15]. Following 10 years
of SrR therapy, most of the Sr content is still retained ..."

"... Much of the bone density increase being seen with
SrC is likely due to the replacement of calcium with strontium in
the bone. Strontium has a larger atomic weight than calcium (38
vs 20), which causes it to attenuate X-rays more strongly than
calcium. Hence the readings on the DEXA scan appear artificially
inflated with bone density looking better than is the case. ..."

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Profile picture for kfhoz @kfhoz

@oopsiedaisy Like you, I have/am considering taking Strontium supplements. Significantly worse T-scores than I have now would most likely push me over the threshold and I would take SrC now. Strontium may well significantly help reduce fractures. But Sr comes at a cost of probably making your DEXA scan appear artificially inflated with bone density looking better than is the case. And that cost lasts 10+ years.

The Mirza study link that @kathleen1314 helpfully provides above includes the below excerpts of the type of information that still makes me hang back from Sr:

"... Due to its high molecular weight, this 1% incorporation of Sr causes an
average overestimation of BMD of 10% [15]. Following 10 years
of SrR therapy, most of the Sr content is still retained ..."

"... Much of the bone density increase being seen with
SrC is likely due to the replacement of calcium with strontium in
the bone. Strontium has a larger atomic weight than calcium (38
vs 20), which causes it to attenuate X-rays more strongly than
calcium. Hence the readings on the DEXA scan appear artificially
inflated with bone density looking better than is the case. ..."

Jump to this post

@kfhoz
The dexa scan skew from denser strontium is no longer considered a concern. This is because TBS and REMS are not affected by strontium's denser weight and both show good density and bone quality for strontium users.

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Profile picture for oopsiedaisy @oopsiedaisy

@kathleen1314 Thanks for the links. Bottom line is that there are no peer reviewed, phase 3, double blinded, controlled studies on strontium citrate to reduce fracture risk. At best, it remains a supplement that may help but is not FDA approved for the treatment of osteoporosis. Perhaps one day it will be studied in this nature but doubt it will be because there is no ROI for drug or supplement companies.

I understand why some people take it, though, in the hopes it will help increase their BMD and thus reduce their fracture risk. There does seem to be some evidence for this in animal studies.

It’s an interesting supplement. I have considered taking it at times but have been hesistant due to the effect on DEXA and the lack of scientific research on strontium citrate for fracture reduction. This is the gold standard for me, having experienced an osteoporosis-related fracture in the past. My BMD has been quite stable over the years and not that low so I don’t put too much weight on it for my treatment.

Unfortunately, one cannot extrapolate studies on strontium ranelate to strontium citrate. Two chemical compounds carrying the same atom will not always have the same level of absorption or outcome in our bodies. An example of this would be thinking that sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate have the same effect in our bodies because they both carry a sodium atom.

Jump to this post

@oopsiedaisy
It’s true that different salts can behave differently in the body, but in this case the absorption argument doesn’t really hold. Studies show that strontium ranelate and strontium citrate have similar fractional absorption once they dissociate in the gut — the main difference is just the amount of elemental strontium per dose. And because both deliver the same Sr²⁺ ion, the bone‑cell mechanisms demonstrated in ranelate studies remain relevant to citrate.

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Profile picture for oopsiedaisy @oopsiedaisy

@broken13 I'm currently on Evenity. I have two more shots to go. Previously did 5+ years on Fosamax followed up by 5 months of Tymlos and 2 months of generic Forteo.

Also on bHRT for many years now and all the recommended lifestyle changes (diet/exercise). I take vitamin K. I'm no longer taking supplemental calcium but ensure I get 1000 mg in my diet every day. The latter is at my endocrinologist's recommendation. I have high urinary calcium.

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@oopsiedaisy Were you unable to tolerate Tymlos and Forteo? Just wondering why only 5 months on the one and 2 months on the other. Would love to hear your density results when you complete Evenity!

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Profile picture for oopsiedaisy @oopsiedaisy

@broken13 I'm currently on Evenity. I have two more shots to go. Previously did 5+ years on Fosamax followed up by 5 months of Tymlos and 2 months of generic Forteo.

Also on bHRT for many years now and all the recommended lifestyle changes (diet/exercise). I take vitamin K. I'm no longer taking supplemental calcium but ensure I get 1000 mg in my diet every day. The latter is at my endocrinologist's recommendation. I have high urinary calcium.

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@oopsiedaisy
What change have evenity, Fosamax or Tymlos or Forteo made in your osteoporosis for the better. Hopefully, you are now in normal bone density territory with normal TBS with no fractures and no side effects. I think it helps all of us to see and celebrate one another's good results.

I am a strontium citrate user with BHRT and all the usual suspects of exercise and needed nutrition. I have been in normal bone density territory for years, never diminishing since I began strontium citrate. I had a normal TBS report this past December. All without any side effects and no fractures.

I hope the best for everyone's chosen bone plan. Indeed, I rejoice over anyone's gains. We are all in this together.

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Profile picture for mcchesney @kathleen1314

@kfhoz
The dexa scan skew from denser strontium is no longer considered a concern. This is because TBS and REMS are not affected by strontium's denser weight and both show good density and bone quality for strontium users.

Jump to this post

@kathleen1314 I heard that people get better scores from strontium, but question the actual effect on bones…I am concerned about adding another med and possible drug interactions…that said, many people here seem to be very happy with results from strontium.

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Profile picture for mcchesney @kathleen1314

@oopsiedaisy
What change have evenity, Fosamax or Tymlos or Forteo made in your osteoporosis for the better. Hopefully, you are now in normal bone density territory with normal TBS with no fractures and no side effects. I think it helps all of us to see and celebrate one another's good results.

I am a strontium citrate user with BHRT and all the usual suspects of exercise and needed nutrition. I have been in normal bone density territory for years, never diminishing since I began strontium citrate. I had a normal TBS report this past December. All without any side effects and no fractures.

I hope the best for everyone's chosen bone plan. Indeed, I rejoice over anyone's gains. We are all in this together.

Jump to this post

@kathleen1314 My bone density has been stable for years. Osteopenia in my spine, hips just into the osteoporosis range. It improved on Fosamax for the first two years then decreased slightly.

I don't have another DEXA until July so we'll see how it looks.

I don't judge my outcome by T-scores, though. Clearly, I have underlying issues because I fractured my spine even with a T-score that was in osteopenic range. I use fractures as my outcome measurement.

I have not fractured for 2.5 years despite an extremely active lifestyle so I am happy with that.

Recently, it was discovered that I have idiopathic hypercalciuria which may have contributed to my osteoporosis. My dad had a similar issue; never diagnosed with osteoporosis as it pre-dated DEXA scanning. IH looks to be genetic so I may have inherited the tendency from him.

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Profile picture for nycmusic @nycmusic

@kathleen1314 I heard that people get better scores from strontium, but question the actual effect on bones…I am concerned about adding another med and possible drug interactions…that said, many people here seem to be very happy with results from strontium.

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@nycmusic
Well, there are biopsies and research to show that the strontium effect is actual good density and bone quality. Plus, now REMS and TBS scores backs up those biopsies and research.

Yes, it is hard to argue with strontium's good bone density, good bone quality (TBS) no side effects, no fractures and no worries about osteonecrosis of the jaw (ONJ) (jawbone death), atypical femur fractures (thigh bone snaps), and severe kidney issues as are seen in many osteoporosis drugs.
Plus, strontium may be stopped or begun without concerns, unlike many osteoporosis drugs.

As a conservative treatment goes, it seems to me to be a more conservative move to consider before osteoporosis drugs. But the decision of what osteoporosis intervention to use is based on more than biopsies, research and TBS , REMS and DEXA results; there is an element of emotion and the need to feel safe and secure which has to be met in different ways for different people.

And a community that supports all our choices and celebrates our wins is valuable to all of us.

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Profile picture for oopsiedaisy @oopsiedaisy

@kathleen1314 My bone density has been stable for years. Osteopenia in my spine, hips just into the osteoporosis range. It improved on Fosamax for the first two years then decreased slightly.

I don't have another DEXA until July so we'll see how it looks.

I don't judge my outcome by T-scores, though. Clearly, I have underlying issues because I fractured my spine even with a T-score that was in osteopenic range. I use fractures as my outcome measurement.

I have not fractured for 2.5 years despite an extremely active lifestyle so I am happy with that.

Recently, it was discovered that I have idiopathic hypercalciuria which may have contributed to my osteoporosis. My dad had a similar issue; never diagnosed with osteoporosis as it pre-dated DEXA scanning. IH looks to be genetic so I may have inherited the tendency from him.

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@oopsiedaisy
Yes, I think that you have a good hope of a "cure" when your hypercalciuria is under control.
It is difficult if not impossible for any drug or supplement to change the course of an untreated disease.
I think that you will have great results when the idiopathic hypercalciuria is under control.

I really think that eventually you will view this diagnosis as great news for you.

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Profile picture for mcchesney @kathleen1314

@kfhoz
The dexa scan skew from denser strontium is no longer considered a concern. This is because TBS and REMS are not affected by strontium's denser weight and both show good density and bone quality for strontium users.

Jump to this post

@kathleen1314 thanks for that detail…is there a prescription quality strontium citrate ! Supplements can be questionable…..or do you know a good brand that has been properly vetted ?

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