New DX with a lot of Confusion and Stress

Posted by 2young4bones @2young4bones, Jan 7 5:21pm

Recently diagnosed w/"severe" OP at 61 following an overexertion lumbar fracture. I also fractured 2 lumbar vertebrae 4.5 years ago from an accident. I've seen endo and they are recommending Evenity followed by Reclast or Reclast only as a 2nd choice. Not thrilled w/Reclast - or any bisphosonate - because of the risks of kidney and jaw bone damage.

DXA scan scores: Spine L1, L3
BMD: 0.832 g/cm2, T-score: -2.8, Z-score: -1.4
Left Total Hip
BMD: 0.656 g/cm2, T-score: -2.8, Z-score: -1.7
Right Total Hip
BMD: 0.604 g/cm2, T-score: -3.2, Z-score: -2.1
Mean Bilateral Total Hip
BMD: 0.63 g/cm2, T-score: -3.0 , Z-score: -1.9
Left Femoral Neck
BMD: 0.603 g/cm2, T-score:-3.1, Z-score:-1.8
Right Femoral Neck
BMD: 0.576 g/cm2, T-score: -3.3, Z-score: -2.0

All bloodwork came back w/in normal range except my Vit D was high (74.5) but I do take a quality D3/K2 which is now reduced to 3x/wk.

Light chains also showed high free Lambda (35.9), Normal Kappa (18.4) and Normal Ratio (0.51)

24 hr Calcium in urine was high (387.9) so endo doesn't want to try Tymlos or Forte which was the orignal plan pending blood tests.

I did read that high Vit D can cause high calcium in urine. Should I ask for the test to be repeated now that my Vit D was adjusted?

They do not want me to take a Calcium supplement believing I have adequate dietary intake. I also take Mag at night.

I've been reading multiple posts here many with differing personal opinions or results. Endo understands I'm hesitant to take any meds but specifically ones that can ultimately do more harm than good. I asked his nurse practioner why there's no mention of nutrition or excercise in the treatment plan with literally no answer.

I'm in PT from the recent fracture at the end of October and subsequent vertebroplasty on Dec 1st where, after core strengthening, we will be focusing on lifting. I keep prodding PT for an Osteo specific treatment plan, but they state they don't normally see patients to develop a program like that. Odd, because my Drs are all associated with one of the largest teaching hospitals in the Midwest!

I'm scared - scared of taking the meds and scared of not taking them. Endo said my risk related to a fall and fracture are greater than the risks of taking meds. When I asked the "what if" of jaw necrosis, he replied he would find me a great oral surgeon. Has anyone done just Evenity for 12 months and not followed up with another biphosonate med? What are the risks? Asking because the one other test I researched -C-Telopeptide, Beta-Cross-Linked, Serum was normal for my age - 525 pg/ml and since this is a biomarker for bone resorption do I need a drug to slow that down?

I have a desk job which doesn't help to have gravity make my bones stronger. I recently ordered a sit to stand desk and have been standing for the majority of the day. Looking into programs offered at our local Y and open to suggestions!

Too new to this to wrap my head around it all. Looking to the many experts on this site who can calm my nerves and provide guidance.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

Profile picture for jozer @jozer

I think we are all scared of taking meds, also of not taking meds. I too have “severe” OP numbers similar to yours. I did not receive any information about diet or exercise other than “resistance exercise” (been doing aerobics with weights for decades) and “eat calcium rich food, here is a list”. No PT until I asked since I need to have a referral to schedule. No specific osteoporosis physical therapist that I could find, but I did learn a lot from the one I saw. My CTX which I requested after reading about bone markers was at 52. Have no idea if that means anything; also had NTX which according to the lab paperwork was in normal range. Fosamax 8 months then reclast last July. I also am checking out the Y for weight bearing machines as the PT said that would possibly help. The doc scared me with the lecture about holding handrails, no shoveling, no bending or twisting, no golfing etc. made me think I should wrap up in bubble wrap and stay home! PT rolled her eyes a bit and said, after watching my so-called golf swing that I’d be fine to golf. She said strengthening core and keeping back flat; don’t bend over curved like a shrimp. OP was silent for me, no back issues like you. I did break my wrist in a car wreck couple years ago, EMT and ER doc said happens all the time (airbag injury) and the surgeon who fixed it said my bones looked good. He isn’t a DEXA machine though! I am 68, asked about HRT or BHRT and that was a hard no from gyne, mom had breast cancer.

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@jozer

Is there a reason why you have it been prescribed an anabolic like forteo, tymlos or evenity yet?

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Profile picture for dvargo @dvargo

You have to do your own research. The drugs fill the wholes but make your bones more brittle. The quality will go down. Research the drugs. Last month they took the black box warning off estrogen. The medical community has failed us. You have to be your own advocate and remember, doctors are trained to treat the symptoms not the cause. It is not their fault. It is all they know.

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@dvargo that's why I'm interested in hrt during and after treatment. Frankly, in reading more posts, I'm getting scared to start Evenity as many ppl say they have bad side effects. My husband just battled head and neck cancer and I'm the majority bread winner so we can't afford me to be down and out for days each month. How is anyone supposed to make an informed decision when it seems like we aren't ever told the whole truth about treatments?

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Profile picture for gravity3 @gravity3

@jozer

Is there a reason why you have it been prescribed an anabolic like forteo, tymlos or evenity yet?

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@gravity3 I was diagnosed less than a month ago. Normally takes 4 months to see endo but I asked to be on the wait list and got in on Dec 29th. All my tests just came back and endo wants to use Evenity because of elevated calcium in my urine. Even he said it's really hard to get insurance to cover Tymlos which was my first choice when he presented options.

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Profile picture for dvargo @dvargo

You have to do your own research. The drugs fill the wholes but make your bones more brittle. The quality will go down. Research the drugs. Last month they took the black box warning off estrogen. The medical community has failed us. You have to be your own advocate and remember, doctors are trained to treat the symptoms not the cause. It is not their fault. It is all they know.

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@dvargo so are you saying no treatment based on the risks after treatment? I thought some of the anabolic options built bone in different way and biphosonates only added to the outer layer. Anyone know that to be true or false?

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Profile picture for gently @gently

2young4bones,
your own suggestion is the very best. Repeat the urine calcium. I'd stop D altogether in anticipation of the test.
You may have high free lambda because you are overworking your kidneys by tasking them to get rid of all that calcium'.
D enhances the absorption of calcium.
I'm not one of the resident experts that you have called up in your post. But I want everyone to at least try Forteo or Tymlos because I see them as the best medication available. They clear your system quickly so you aren't trapped by months of side effects. (Unless a person make the admirable, but mistaken, amazonian mistake of tolerating side effects)
They do raise calcium levels transiently. The temporary raise in calcium is an essential part of the mechanism by which these drugs work.
When you ask for the repeat 24 hour urine, you might also ask for a repeat D, as it can stay in your system for months, a parathyroid level. And P1NP to accompany the CTX.
Few PT are trained in the dangers of exercise for low bone density patients. And it differs for individuals depending upon where the lbd is. But if you have a trabecular structure successfully bearing the weight of life and then you remove a few of the struts, and then you raise the weight it has to bear cognizant that there will be bone muscle crosstalk, when you reach the peak weight that your muscles can bear (imagine weights held high overhead) your bones with all those missing struts might just collapse before hearing any crosstalk.
Your CTX is high--higher because it has to remove the damaged bone from the fracture.
Low bone density makes us think we need to stop the loss. The cells that CTX represent are attracted to damaged bone. Don't we need CTX to remove damaged bone. Wouldn't it be to our bone's advantage to increase the cells that replace the bone represented by P1NP.

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@gently can you provide more info on P1NP? How is it tested and shouldn't it have been included with my other tests?

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Profile picture for 2young4bones @2young4bones

@gravity3 I was diagnosed less than a month ago. Normally takes 4 months to see endo but I asked to be on the wait list and got in on Dec 29th. All my tests just came back and endo wants to use Evenity because of elevated calcium in my urine. Even he said it's really hard to get insurance to cover Tymlos which was my first choice when he presented options.

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@2young4bones

I hope the evenity works well for you. I had great gains on Evenity. A bit of soreness just post injections.

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I didn’t want to take meds again but I have had enough fractures. Reclast as horrible for me so I went with Prolia but wish I hadn’t! It’s kind of a catch 22! So far the side effects haven’t been bad.

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Profile picture for 2young4bones @2young4bones

@dvargo so are you saying no treatment based on the risks after treatment? I thought some of the anabolic options built bone in different way and biphosonates only added to the outer layer. Anyone know that to be true or false?

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@2young4bones Anabolics build quality bone. Biphosphonates inhibit bone breakdown, but aren't good at building bone. That is why anabolics are generally the first line of treatment. The general statement that drugs "fill holes but make your bones more brittle" is false.

I've linked to this helpful writeup before. This link jumps to the medication section. I think you will find it informative.
https://my.bone-guide.workers.dev/chapters/09-medications.html

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Profile picture for 2young4bones @2young4bones

@gently can you provide more info on P1NP? How is it tested and shouldn't it have been included with my other tests?

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@2young4bones, P1NP is the fragment left in the bone after specific protein-cutting enzymes cleave off extension peptides from the procollagen molecule before it forms collagen fibers. The N-terminal propeptide (P1NP) is one of these removed fragments, released into the bloodstream. Measured they stand to represent the action of the cells that build bone, just as CTX represents the action of cells that break down bone.
They are both sourced through a simple blood draw that should be done fasting, early in the morning after an interlude from biotin and collagen.
The standard use is CTX before dosing with an antiresorptive and again after 2 months; P1NP before use and after a month of use. Primarily it is used to ascertain that the medication is effective.
If the original plan was to take Tymlos, P1NP would be (have been) useful.
I think that they should always be measured together. But, I haven't done the long arduous studies required to be a doctor.

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Profile picture for 2young4bones @2young4bones

@dvargo that's why I'm interested in hrt during and after treatment. Frankly, in reading more posts, I'm getting scared to start Evenity as many ppl say they have bad side effects. My husband just battled head and neck cancer and I'm the majority bread winner so we can't afford me to be down and out for days each month. How is anyone supposed to make an informed decision when it seems like we aren't ever told the whole truth about treatments?

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@2young4bones, some people don't have side effects with Evenity, but I'm partial to your firs choice--Tymlos. I hope your husband is recovering well.

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