What can you tell me about my mri picture

Posted by justbec2004 @justbec2004, Sep 11 6:01pm

I have been dealing with excruciating back, leg and foot pain since April. One dr said therapy which didn’t work, one dr said epidurals which didn’t work. Now they said fusion at l5-s1 but the other dr says the pain is not coming from my back. I just want to be able to walk without feeling like walking on nails in foot all day long. I am so confused as to what is wrong and so tired of all the run around I am getting.

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Profile picture for loriesco @loriesco

It could be both. Something to remember is that the Orthopedic (spinal) doctor sticks to his realm. I had 4 opinions by the time I was finished. but like I said you should also have the read to show us. Don't expect a straight answer. Expect the truth of what the doctor can offer. Mine was super honest "I might not be able to heal all of your pain because the nerves have been crushed for so long" But he gave me my life back. You should go to a pain mgt doctor who works WITH your orthopedist. So you can hold them accountable. You can go to an EMT (nerve) specialist and they will do tests and tell you if the nerves exiting your back are the cause. That can give you the insight you are lacking. Doing diagnostic procedures like epidurals and corticosteroid injections in your spine/facet joints will also verify where the pain is coming from.

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What is the read?

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Profile picture for justbec2004 @justbec2004

Please help with mri results. Also can this cause extreme pain in foot.

S1 segment is partially lumbarized with 5 additional nonrib-bearing lumbar type vertebral segments. Last rib-bearing segment labeled as T12. Conus medullaris terminates at L1 with no abnormal intramedullary signal alteration. Moderate endplate degenerative marrow space findings at L5-S1. No discitis osteomyelitis lumbar spine. Common bile duct measures approximately 0.7 cm. This desiccation at L3-L4 through L5-S1.
At T12-L1, no disc bulge, spinal canal stenosis, or neural foraminal stenosis.
At L1-L2, no disc bulge, spinal canal stenosis, or neural foraminal stenosis.
At L2-L3, no disc bulge, spinal canal stenosis, or neural foraminal stenosis.
At L3-L4, no neural foraminal stenosis or spinal canal stenosis. Posterior disc bulge (2 mm AP).
At L4-L5, mild disc height loss. No neural foraminal stenosis. No spinal canal stenosis. Posterior disc bulge (3 mm AP). Mild bilateral facet arthropathy.
At L5-S1, moderate disc height loss. Mild left neural foraminal stenosis. Moderate right neural foraminal stenosis. No significant spinal canal stenosis. Mild/moderate bilateral facet arthropathy. Broad-based posterior disc osteophyte complex (4 mm AP) with finding extending into the bilateral neural foramen.

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@justbec2004
Here is what I see in your MRI:

You have a congenital deformity of your S1 vertebrae. Normally, it is solid/stable in your sacrum but yours is more like a lumbar vertebrae that moves. That can be behind a lot of your pain. It presses on and irritates nerves.

At L5-S1, moderate disc height loss, your vertebrae may not be well supported which creates less space for your L5 nerves, especially on the right side. You also have bone overgrowth/arthritis and degeneration in your facet joints which may contribute to pain when your bones rub together and get irritated/inflamed. The loss of disc height and broad-based posterior disc osteophyte complex (4 mm AP) is a bony overgrowth due to excess movement of L5 and S1. This overgrowth extends into both sides of the vertebrae where nerve roots exit and can be irritating these nerves. See picture I attached that shows L5 nerves can cause pain into feet and these are the one to focus on.

Did you say you had spine surgery before? If so, what levels and what was done. If not, it seems like there should be options explored on fusion of L5-S1-S2, removal of the bony overgrowth/osteophyte complex between L5-S1, possible removal of facet joints (facetectomy), stabilization of spine, etc. spinal injections may only give temporary pain relief if injected in the right place. Physical therapy/stretching/strengthening, weight loss, improving posture, not lifting heavy things or doing high impact activities, etc. may help.

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Profile picture for dlydailyhope @dlydailyhope

@justbec2004
Here is what I see in your MRI:

You have a congenital deformity of your S1 vertebrae. Normally, it is solid/stable in your sacrum but yours is more like a lumbar vertebrae that moves. That can be behind a lot of your pain. It presses on and irritates nerves.

At L5-S1, moderate disc height loss, your vertebrae may not be well supported which creates less space for your L5 nerves, especially on the right side. You also have bone overgrowth/arthritis and degeneration in your facet joints which may contribute to pain when your bones rub together and get irritated/inflamed. The loss of disc height and broad-based posterior disc osteophyte complex (4 mm AP) is a bony overgrowth due to excess movement of L5 and S1. This overgrowth extends into both sides of the vertebrae where nerve roots exit and can be irritating these nerves. See picture I attached that shows L5 nerves can cause pain into feet and these are the one to focus on.

Did you say you had spine surgery before? If so, what levels and what was done. If not, it seems like there should be options explored on fusion of L5-S1-S2, removal of the bony overgrowth/osteophyte complex between L5-S1, possible removal of facet joints (facetectomy), stabilization of spine, etc. spinal injections may only give temporary pain relief if injected in the right place. Physical therapy/stretching/strengthening, weight loss, improving posture, not lifting heavy things or doing high impact activities, etc. may help.

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Thank you. I have never had spinal surgery. I have been in pt since April and he said last month he couldn't help me anymore. The 1st ortho dr I seen said fusion also but the 2nd one said I don't think the pain in right side is coming from your back. He wants me to see a neurologist. Pain management dr has tried everything and nothing helps. I just want it fixed.

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Profile picture for justbec2004 @justbec2004

S1 segment is partially lumbarized with 5 additional nonrib-bearing lumbar type vertebral segments. Last rib-bearing segment labeled as T12. Conus medullaris terminates at L1 with no abnormal intramedullary signal alteration. Moderate endplate degenerative marrow space findings at L5-S1. No discitis osteomyelitis lumbar spine. Common bile duct measures approximately 0.7 cm. This desiccation at L3-L4 through L5-S1.
At T12-L1, no disc bulge, spinal canal stenosis, or neural foraminal stenosis.
At L1-L2, no disc bulge, spinal canal stenosis, or neural foraminal stenosis.
At L2-L3, no disc bulge, spinal canal stenosis, or neural foraminal stenosis.
At L3-L4, no neural foraminal stenosis or spinal canal stenosis. Posterior disc bulge (2 mm AP).
At L4-L5, mild disc height loss. No neural foraminal stenosis. No spinal canal stenosis. Posterior disc bulge (3 mm AP). Mild bilateral facet arthropathy.
At L5-S1, moderate disc height loss. Mild left neural foraminal stenosis. Moderate right neural foraminal stenosis. No significant spinal canal stenosis. Mild/moderate bilateral facet arthropathy. Broad-based posterior disc osteophyte complex (4 mm AP) with finding extending into the bilateral neural foramen.

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@justbec2004 I saw this after my post and replied above. There are a variety of issues at L5-S1. It could be a very minor surgery or outpatient proceedure or it could be a fusion surgery. You will definitely get some pain relief. I'd consult another ortho spine surgeon if you weren't in love with your first and also a pain mgt doctor. See if you can get it to come together for your "straight answer." But honestly - no one KNOWS what exactly is causing the nerve pain until they open you up. They can guess because there are a variety of things at play. They would just fix them all at L5-S1 and you will feel better. Right now, no one knows if the problem is caused by the disc out of position, the compression, the osteophytes, etc. That is expecting too much. So I suggest continuing on with the recommended diagnostics until you and your dr. is satisfied you are ready for surgery.

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In reply to @justbec2004 "What is the read?" + (show)
Profile picture for justbec2004 @justbec2004

What is the read?

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the "read" is the radiologists report. It goes along with the MRI to make everyone's life easy. They tell you in written form what the radiologist observes. It is clear you have reasons for spine surgery. However, you must find a spine surgeon you have total confidence in. In the meantime, continue to have diagnostic procedures, which will define your problem. Your spine surgeon can only guess right now from what is seen because there are multiple issues. Out of my 4 opinions, one idiot spine surgeon said I "sprained" my back. hahaha. I was way gone already.

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