Does it make sense that HB’s ( Human Beings) can “ change”

Good morning, sillyblone (@sillyblone)

You make many good points, as well as share many powerful observations. I hadn't thought to slide the discussion away from "change" (Is change possible?) when I mentioned perfectionism in passing, but so be it.

You say that you've been a perfectionist your "entire life." I haven't been. In reviewing my life (I'm 80), it doesn't appear that I was a perfectionist for the first 40-plus years of that life. From my late teens until my mid-40s, I was a drinker––not a "nasty" drinker (no lost jobs, no busted relationships … well, maybe one 🙂 … no fist fights, no DUIs)––I was more or less a social drinker: "social," but heavy-duty. Cutting right to the chase, in my mid-40s I realized I'd been suffocating my ambitions (i.e., Jim Beam-ing away my life) and had to quit.

Looking back today, I believe AA with its 12 Steps (as well as other strict sobriety programs) made me a perfectionist, I say "made;" it may have been more like "brought perfectionism to the forefront of me" (that it had been there all along). I no longer pay daily attention to the 12 Steps, but Perfectionist Me has, over the years, formulated other programs or practices that serve a guardrails or signposts for daily living. (One of my guardrails, for example, I call the "Bloomsbury Triad," which I'm happy to explain to anyone who's curious. 🙂 )

I'll stop here, sillyblone. I thank you for your post. You've given me much to think about as this day rolls along.

Cheers!
Ray (@ray666)

I think that you gave me a compliment. I have always wanted to be educated and work at being the best individual I could possibly be. My spouse has always encouraged me and made me feel like I was the best thing that happened to him. He is my love , my reason to get up and anything that comes up. I am retired and plan to stay that way. But this Caregiving has been the hardest thing I have ever encountered. I realize we all lose are battle called life. But.. as long as he is on this earth he will know I have his back. I have had three people in my family who have had Parkinsons. That does not make me an expert..but I know what it means to deal with this horrible disease! I enjoyed your comments and am always interested in learning anything new. Perfectionist is and will always be me. My father was in the military and I was the oldest of five. My Mom was a wonderful woman. If only I could talk or hug here again. I was given lots of responsibilities at a young age. I can see that it has helped me to deal with many things in my life and other's. I love my family and would do anything if needed to help. I am always a wife, protector and giver. Again thank you. 🫂 🤗

Your third choice, "there isn’t one answer that remains the same for everyone all the time" seems most true. After all if there is a constant, it's Change: We all age -- people, animals on surface, in air, under water. Even rocks and rivers, the climate.
But I guess you are concerned with HB, the old ones like me, an Octogen. Why do they remain stuck in ways that may be incompatible to the present, is what you're interested in? Because we also get comfortable with ways that we have lived in -- with places, routines, possessions, culture, climate ....
So HBs (and perhaps animals we share space With us they too begin to change) -- in ways that still obey the more fundamental 'laws of nature' such as survival. But here humans also differ: we sometimes give our life-on-earth for promises in better or more worthwhile life hereafter. Remember that mass suicide in that small country on the northern edge of South america where they committed mass suicide? Or brides who used to jump in fire to die if their husbands had died -- now outlawed in India, or foot binding that was practiced in China, or long-necks in North of India -- but changed?

So why change happens is equally more fascinating for me. The China 'miracle' that iss going head to head with the Most Powerful nation on earth all within a few generation -- including at what cost to human life -- is a ripping phenomenon for me.

Thankfully we all are given 24 hours each day as we wake up -- with No Conditions Attached. HOW we spend it is fist and foremost my business, unless of course where it may interfere with people around me. So if I want to die like a Socrates, among friends drinking my hemlock to end MY life because it is no longer as ''interesting'-to-me' and I've made sure I've paid my loans (chicken in case of Socrates) the I and my friends should be able to do it.
I hope we all have friends who are with us when we may need them most -- one thing that is Outside of HB's control. Because friendship is MUTUAL.

You wrote:

"Thankfully we all are given 24 hours each day as we wake up -- with No Conditions Attached."

A moment ago I spoke to a fellow on the phone whose English suggested he was far & away removed from Des Moines. He closed in saying, "I wish you an amazing rest of your day!"

I'm looking forward to precisely that.

Thanks, sisyphus (@sisyphus), for your post.
Ray (@ray666)

Good morning, sillyblone (@sillyblone)

Those were definitely compliments! I thought you did a beautiful job of describing the tough life of a caregiver. Few people understand how tough it is until they find themselves cast in the role of a caregiver.

Our situation here at home has been a back & forth situation: my partner had been my caregiver for over a year while fought my way back from a sepsis infection, and now, as she is dealing with some sort of as-yet-undiagnosed anemia (three transfusions so far), I find myself as playing the role of the caregiver.

You said it so movingly: "But as long as he is on this earth he will know I have his back." So true! When the person in need matters to us, we will do all we can!

I wish you and your husband the very best!
Ray (@ray666)

Thank you! Hope everything continues to improve . 🤗🫂

I am a recovering alcoholic/addict of 7+ years. I was a chronic relapser from the age of 14 years old. I was 47 years old, when I got sober this time. I do believe that people can change. I have seen changes in myself due to the 12 steps of AA as well as therapy and I am also back in graduate school. I had no idea that I had a part of myself that was a perfectionist. I would have never called that, but I do. It has always been there, just covered with substances. I (like others) seem to have a very all or nothing, black or white view of the world. I am working on changing that part of me with the help of my belief in "God", "the Source", "higher power..." whatever you call that. I believe we all have that belief inside and it connects everything...the Universe, planets, all living things. The ONLY absolute is CHANGE. Everything is constantly changing. There is a lot of research about the brain as well and neuroplasticity, meaning that we can change our brains. We can utilize modalities and meditation, etc., to reroute the paths of the neurons and the firing of those. There is so much we do not know. As human beings, we know a lot...we also really don't know. I find human behavior fascinating. This is a wonderful topic and I have truly enjoyed reading others comments.

Good morning, diverdown1(@diverdown1)

It appears we sobered up about the same time, or the same age, anyway. Exact memory escapes me, but I do know I was somewhere in my mid-40s. To the best of my recollection, I began my struggle to beat the sauce in the late '80s, but wasn't permanently successful until the early '90s. Like amny of us, I availed myself of all sorts of recovery helpers, starting with shyly skimming books on alcoholism in the aisles of our local bookstores ("I hope no one sees me … " 🙂 ), giving AA a number of tries, interlacing AA with Rational Recovery (too "rational" for me), Secular Sobriety (I liked the "secular" part), the local hospital's substance abuse workshop, finally ending up back at (in?) AA. To this day, I give AA most of the credit for my sobriety. But, as I believe I indicated in an earlier post, AA also turned me into a perfectionist. The notion that everything I did, the entirety of my consciousness, my every willful act had to be done according to some enumeration of "steps" or I risked failure (relapse?). I became a Master List-Maker. It has taken until only recently for me to recognize the insanity of my absolute perfectionism (or, as you say, "all or nothing"). I'm still a perfectionist (some degree of orderliness is in the marrow of me), but today I do what I can not to allow perfectionism to rule me; instead, I'm careful to "manage" my perfectionism insofar as I can so that I rule––or at least "negotiate with"––my perfectionism rather than the other way around.

Here's wishing you a fine weekend, diverdown1!
Ray (@ray666)

Hi Olman,
Interesting question. Human Beings can change if they want to, in many cases. However, as you age change will definitely happen as I'm finding out at age 79. Your energy isn't as good as it used to be no matter what you eat or how much you exercise. Your skin wrinkles and your hair may turn gray. Luckily, my hair hasn't turned gray yet. Your familiar world starts changing. My husband recently died. My good friends also died as did the neighbor's cat who really liked me. I'm glad that my husband and friends and yes, the cat are all up in Heaven and out of pain. But now there's another change, I'm lonely. About all you can do is give all your cares and troubles up to God. I did and it works. Things are getting better for me. One good thing about God is that he never changes. He is always there for us.
Thank you for this interesting subject!
PML

@ray666

Congratulations on getting off the demonbrew! When I first got sober (this time) I was so desperate that I did everything AA suggested. I went to two and three meetings a day. I got really involved. I needed that at the time. My life took some drastic changes about 3 years into my sobriety. I ended up being my father's hospice nurse (even giving him the morphine), I had only met his wife twice. I was there for 10 days and my father was diagnosed withNarcissistic Personality Disorder, years earlier so you can imagine (maybe?) the shit show of dealing with his wife's side of the family. A lot of my defects of character reared their head, rage especially and my father was dying, so it was a terrible situation, and I was there when he took his last breath. I made it through that. My partner of 28 years had said he was going to get sober when I did. That did not happen. I got sober in 2017. I moved out of our house in 2019. He continued to drink and in 2021 and 2022 I drove him to the ER, 6 times total due to alcoholism causing extreme emergency health issues. I got him to go to treatment. He stayed sober for about 3 months. I found him, dead, in our house on 12/18/23. Devastating. He was my best friend, my family. He just could not stop. I developed long COVID in June of 2023 and still have this damn virus. My life has changed a lot, but I have not picked up a drink. For that I am so grateful. All this to say, I backed off AA meetings due to many factors, particularly the chronic fatigue and post-exertion malaise that goes with Long COVID. I know the 12 steps and gained so much in learning to live "life on life's terms." It is so difficult, but I have found that I wake daily, do some reading from many different sources and stay in the day. So although I don't go to meetings as much, I still have the tools that I gained. A lot of my "stuff" I am working on in therapy. I am trying to find the gray area, moderation, remembering that I do not have any idea what someone else is thinking. We are all experiencing our lives subjectively. It is strange, I am a perfectionist in some areas of my life and not at all in other areas. I feel like a kid emotionally, and I guess I am in many ways. How could I not be having started using chemicals at the age of 12? I like how you said you "negotiate with my perfectionism." I find myself negotiating with many parts of myself as well. The wonderful thing is that I am becoming aware of these parts of me. I never saw them because I was always under the influence. Viva es loco. Enjoy your weekend as well.

Ginny (@diverdown1)