Has anyone had a painful biopsy? What was the explanation?

Posted by warmer @warmer, Mar 21 2:07pm

Hi all--thank you for this warm and compassionate space for sharing experiences and encouragement. I have already learned a lot.
My question--if you have experienced a painful biopsy, did you ever get an explanation for the pain? And did you find anything that helped?
I have had three ultrasound-guided biopsies now for a cancerous tumor in my left breast. The tumor is attached to the chest wall. Several lymph nodes are affected, and the oncologist has assigned me to stage IIIb.
The first biopsy was just one core sample. It hurt like hell.
The second was a few core samples, and the placement of clips in the tumor and the lymph node. For this biopsy, I felt the pinch of the needle administering the lidocaine, but the actual procedure was not painful.
The third biopsy involved about 6 core samples (I have enrolled in a clinical trial that requires fresh samples and a mammaprint). One of the injections of the numbing agent stung quite a bit. And then the biopsy needle--my god. I think I might have scared the radiology team with my response-- gasping and crying! Eek! And yet--the last two core samples were just fine--some pressure, but very little pain.
Now, I do not want to alarm anyone who is heading into a biopsy procedure--I think the vast majority of patients have very little pain--just like my second treatment and some of my third! But I see that there are just a few people who report a more difficult biopsy.
If you had a painful biopsy, did you ever figure out what was going on?

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Profile picture for Zebra @californiazebra

I don’t believe my rare neuroendocrine lung cancer and breast cancer are related. I did not have any other treatment before my breast cancer. I also have the BRCA2 and CHEK2 mutations for breast cancer. I was told between the two I had an 80% chance of getting breast cancer. I do know radiation can cause other cancer in the future but I don’t think I’m there yet. Lots of different kinds of cancer in my family. I’m betting my family has a lot of unidentified genetic mutations.

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I had the genetic mutation testing done and they found none. Good news for my offspring.

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I only ever had one breast biopsy, which turned out to be IDC. Mine was not machine done, but manually done by a radiologist. She was completely uncaring. The lidocaine she gave me was nowhere near enough! She took 3 snips and the third one about made me jump off the table.
I had a huge hematoma on my breast for many months.
I don’t believe it is necessary for it to be this painful.

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It has always appeared to me that the medical profession does little to meaningfully reduce or eliminate pain during these types of procedures. There are reasons:
1.) injecting more pain meds requires more time;
2.) after injecting pain meds the medical staff fails to wait sufficient time for the pain meds to take effect;
3.) the staff is on a schedule with more patients waiting so pain management is a time issue;
4.) the mindset that "it's always been done this way";
5.) insurance may not cover more pain meds;
6.) the medical staff (nurses, technicians, doctors, etc.) follows pain management procedures set up by the hospital or medical practice that is conducting the procedure, usually designed to save time/money;
While many medical staff mean well and care about managing pain, there are plenty of others who don't.
Too often the vibe is, "Shut up and suffer. You're just the patient."
I am metastatic pleomorphic invasive lobular carcinoma, triple negative. Mets to contralateral breast, lungs, lymphatic system and retroperitoneum. Like all of you, I have had my share of painful procedures. Even the delivery of pain reducing meds, such as lidocaine, is via a painful injection into an already tender, sore part of the body. Starting an IV is painful.
It's important to advocate for yourself. For example, when your oncologist orders a test (biopsy, MRI, etc.) ask your onc to describe the test. What anesthesia will be used? Will I be awake or not? What testing equipment is used? What pain meds are used? Ask about the gauge of the needle to deliver lidocaine or other pain med. Let your onc know that you are concerned about the pain. Ask your onc to include a note in the order that you want more pain control.
Your oncologist will not know the answers to these questions. Your onc will tell you that he/she does not control these issues, that these pain matters are up to the staff handling the procedure. But these types of questions let your onc know that you have strong and legitimate concerns. Address these issues at your procedure appointment prior to the procedure.
I join in urging the medical community to focus on the reduction of patient pain. What is needed is a complete overhaul of practice and attitude toward "pain management" during any "procedure".

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Here is a medical journal article published in 2021 that outlines 13 steps to reduce pain from injecting lidocaine, the pain med commonly used for most cancer biopsies and procedures. The 13 steps are listed in the beginning of the article in the abstract. Easy to cut and paste, then print and take with you to your next biopsy or procedure to hand to the doctor or technician.
https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/08000/how_to_minimize_the_pain_of_local_anesthetic.7.aspx

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I had 2 biopsies in one day; one of the breast and one of the armpit. It was painful, of course, but I braved on through it. I was in pain for the rest of the day, and the days to follow. Bruising was almost immediate (an hour after biopsies) Later was diagnosed with a metastic neuroplasm and the cancer had also spread to my lymph nodes

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Profile picture for olivia7850 @olivia7850

It has always appeared to me that the medical profession does little to meaningfully reduce or eliminate pain during these types of procedures. There are reasons:
1.) injecting more pain meds requires more time;
2.) after injecting pain meds the medical staff fails to wait sufficient time for the pain meds to take effect;
3.) the staff is on a schedule with more patients waiting so pain management is a time issue;
4.) the mindset that "it's always been done this way";
5.) insurance may not cover more pain meds;
6.) the medical staff (nurses, technicians, doctors, etc.) follows pain management procedures set up by the hospital or medical practice that is conducting the procedure, usually designed to save time/money;
While many medical staff mean well and care about managing pain, there are plenty of others who don't.
Too often the vibe is, "Shut up and suffer. You're just the patient."
I am metastatic pleomorphic invasive lobular carcinoma, triple negative. Mets to contralateral breast, lungs, lymphatic system and retroperitoneum. Like all of you, I have had my share of painful procedures. Even the delivery of pain reducing meds, such as lidocaine, is via a painful injection into an already tender, sore part of the body. Starting an IV is painful.
It's important to advocate for yourself. For example, when your oncologist orders a test (biopsy, MRI, etc.) ask your onc to describe the test. What anesthesia will be used? Will I be awake or not? What testing equipment is used? What pain meds are used? Ask about the gauge of the needle to deliver lidocaine or other pain med. Let your onc know that you are concerned about the pain. Ask your onc to include a note in the order that you want more pain control.
Your oncologist will not know the answers to these questions. Your onc will tell you that he/she does not control these issues, that these pain matters are up to the staff handling the procedure. But these types of questions let your onc know that you have strong and legitimate concerns. Address these issues at your procedure appointment prior to the procedure.
I join in urging the medical community to focus on the reduction of patient pain. What is needed is a complete overhaul of practice and attitude toward "pain management" during any "procedure".

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Olivia- I had not thought about those reasons. That does appear to be what happens, but not valid for those of us experiencing these procedures.
As part of my treatment, I had a port installed. They punctured my lung. To re-inflate it, they gave me some lidocaine and morphine and immediately pushed a tube through my side with no explanation. Was completely unprepared for pain level and to lose my breath, but also to have my abdominal muscles go into a spasm that doubled me over. All done in my bed. It was really pretty horrific and ofcouse, the Dr immediately turned and walked out and left the nurse dealing with me. This all delayed my treatment schedule by a month. None of this was good, but I learned it could have been handled differently.

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Profile picture for drummergirl @drummergirl

Olivia- I had not thought about those reasons. That does appear to be what happens, but not valid for those of us experiencing these procedures.
As part of my treatment, I had a port installed. They punctured my lung. To re-inflate it, they gave me some lidocaine and morphine and immediately pushed a tube through my side with no explanation. Was completely unprepared for pain level and to lose my breath, but also to have my abdominal muscles go into a spasm that doubled me over. All done in my bed. It was really pretty horrific and ofcouse, the Dr immediately turned and walked out and left the nurse dealing with me. This all delayed my treatment schedule by a month. None of this was good, but I learned it could have been handled differently.

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Dear Drummergirl: What a horrible experience! I am sorry that happened to you. The doctor sounds like a nasty and incompetent idiot. I have been going to the cancer center for chemo for 3.5 years and have talked with many other patients who have ports. I have never heard about a port installation incident approaching anything close to your nightmare experience. I hope that all is on a better path for you now. Please know that there are many of us thinking of you and wishing you the very best.

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Profile picture for elleinad @elleinad

I had 2 biopsies in one day; one of the breast and one of the armpit. It was painful, of course, but I braved on through it. I was in pain for the rest of the day, and the days to follow. Bruising was almost immediate (an hour after biopsies) Later was diagnosed with a metastic neuroplasm and the cancer had also spread to my lymph nodes

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You had a terrible but avoidable experience if the medical team had been competent. The steps to proper injection of lidocaine (outlined in the article above, in my 2nd message) would have prevented your unnecessary pain. I hope you are doing much better now and that your treatment is going well. I am sending good thoughts your way.

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Profile picture for churlgurl @churlgurl

I had an MRI guided biopsy about nine months ago. The initial injection for numbing stung significantly, the second injection hurt so bad I yelled out “holy shit”. The result was benign “ at this time”. They put a marker in. I am now getting ready to have follow up MRI and very nervous regarding result. If I am told I need another MRI biopsy I will be very upset and nervous because I know they do not provide a painless procedure. Once you know, makes procedure dreaded. Another patient told me she demanded some sort of anesthesia. My thoughts are that most women are already are very apprehensive about a breast biopsy to begin with and to add to it with fear of known pain is so wrong. There is mild sedation which puts you in a semi conscience state, not total sedation of totally out, that should be offered. This would make this a much more comfortable and compassionately performed procedure.

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Hello Churlgurl: You had an awful experience. And terrible that the lidocaine injection was so painful. Below I am adding the link to a medical journal article by a surgeon who takes great pride in giving almost totally pain free injections. He is a hand/arm surgeon who wants patients to tell him they feel no pain from the lidocaine injection before he starts surgery.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8337068/
The doctor lists 13 easy practices that take only a few extra seconds. But they make a world of difference for the patient.
Print out the 13 steps listed at the beginning of the article (in the Abstract section) and take them with you to your next biopsy or procedure. Here's wishing that all is going better for you now.

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Profile picture for olivia7850 @olivia7850

Dear Drummergirl: What a horrible experience! I am sorry that happened to you. The doctor sounds like a nasty and incompetent idiot. I have been going to the cancer center for chemo for 3.5 years and have talked with many other patients who have ports. I have never heard about a port installation incident approaching anything close to your nightmare experience. I hope that all is on a better path for you now. Please know that there are many of us thinking of you and wishing you the very best.

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Thank you. Grateful that I found follow up care at Mayo with an exceptional oncologist. 4 years later now taking it 6 months by 6 months. Doing ok so far.
My original hospital botched my treatment in a number of ways, but that is all another story.

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