Anyone had salvage radiation therapy post-prostatectomy?

Posted by mmmvegas @mmmvegas, Mar 15 12:06pm

I had radical prostatectomy surgery back in the summer of 2011 and have recently experienced rising PSA levels. My PSA levels were never completely undetectable but have rises from an average of .08 to my most recent of .13 in the last 2 years. My urologist referred me to their radiation oncologist and he said that I was early for salvage radiation therapy last summer. I am hesitant to have the radiation earlier than necessary (if it is even necessary) as I am worried about side effects. I have no symptoms related to my prostatectormy and am nervous about the possibilities of having something to deal with after radiation. I am 68 years old.

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Good morning
I have been reading lots of articles about using ozone therapy (used in some countries such as Spain) but still controversial here in USA.
Has anyone tried it to reduce or eliminate impact of rising PSA ?

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Profile picture for knoyes01 @knoyes01

Good morning
I have been reading lots of articles about using ozone therapy (used in some countries such as Spain) but still controversial here in USA.
Has anyone tried it to reduce or eliminate impact of rising PSA ?

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I personally have not but there are no large studies - I think one had 40(?) participants. Used mostly for active surveillance; but these are invasive multiple treatments similar to biopsy so not something I would have pursued.
Phil
Phil

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Profile picture for conchman @conchman

Feel free to look up my saga. It’s not very positive, but outcome today is better.

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Thank you for sharing and you are in my prayers to beat that damn cancer.

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Profile picture for VancouverIslandHiker @vancouverislandhiker

MMM , just my thought process here . IF it looks like your PSA is rising and it could be the start of a reversal , hit it hard and early with Salvage Radiation. At 0.13- 0.2 , normally its the ideal early stage to go after that rising PSA and bad cells in Pelvic region. MRI showed nothing and PSMA- PET scan would most likely show nothing at this low level , but you can be proactive . If yoru going to get Salvage at some stage go " pedal to the metal" is my thinking . your values are very low at 0.13 or so , so you maybe could get away with 20 or 22 (like me ) and no ADT . Im not a doctor , more of a decent Airline Pilot , but my father and grandfather had prostate cancer and my father died of prostate cancer at the age of 67. I have always got my physicals of course for my license and I used to go to the urologist for a routine check for five years even prior to being discovered and diagnosed with prostate cancer. I was that hyper focussed on earlier detection , if im going to get it ! My father was an engineer, very smart man, but hated doctors and never visited a doctor for 10 years at a time. He had to get a physical for an overseas project and that's when it discovered his PSA was about 18 or 20 I think it was. During his last six years of life I was his caregiver, as my mother and sister were too emotional around my father. I drove him back-and-forth from the hospital as he hated the hospital. I was with him to his last breath in heartbeat. Of course it took a lot out of me and gives me post traumatic anxiety at times. It's amazing, even my military experience flying active missions is less heavy on me and then look me up from my father during his last six months. I lose a lot of sleep over that. That happened over 25 years ago as well. Anyway, I wish you the best and pray for you every day. God bless. James on Vanc. Island .

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Thanks again for sharing your experience. It would be an easy decision for me to pursue radiation therapy immediately except that my wife and I have custody of and are raising our 10-year-old granddaughter. My wife is suffering from chronic autoimmune issues so I need to be at full strength to take care of both of these ladies. I worry that side-effects of radiation might make it difficult to give them the support they need.

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Profile picture for mmmvegas @mmmvegas

Thanks again for sharing your experience. It would be an easy decision for me to pursue radiation therapy immediately except that my wife and I have custody of and are raising our 10-year-old granddaughter. My wife is suffering from chronic autoimmune issues so I need to be at full strength to take care of both of these ladies. I worry that side-effects of radiation might make it difficult to give them the support they need.

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I had seven weeks of Salvage radiation When it didn’t affect me at all. I know some people had a little fatigue, but I just went to work and never noticed anything.

Radiation isn’t normally like chemo where you can be sick for a couple of days.

You could follow Dr. Scholz’s advice to just get an SBRT pet scan and zap metastasis. Consider that salvage radiation really only works for 1/3 of people.

Another thing to consider “When PSA rises but can’t find it in the PSMA Pet scan do an MRI, it will be found in Retroperitoneum or lung with high frequency”

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Profile picture for heavyphil @heavyphil

All the comments from the forum are solid gold and there are tens of thousands of men who’ve been in a similar situation - myself also.
I chose radiation and 6 mos ADT 6 yrs after surgery; I read all the literature, all the trials, all the 10 and 15 yr comparisons and outcomes and it all came down to one simple question:
What was I MORE afraid of - the radiation or the cancer?
That’s the only thing that matters when all is said and done.
You’re 68 -relatively young - and you could easily live another 20+ years. It’s taken your cancer 14 years to clinically recur, so how aggressive can it really be, right? However, you need to also consider your PSA Velocity. If it’s taken sudden jumps over the past year it could indicate a rapidly growing tumor or cluster of cells.
As @michaelcharles pointed out, PSMA scan at these low levels are not great; in fact, a few days ago a poster had a PSA of 10.0 and nothing showed!
You can certainly monitor your situation with 3 month PSA tests - any trend upward with increased velocity should make your decision easier. I’m no expert but 3 PSA’s over 9 months should not appreciably change your course if treatment should you go down that path. Best,
Phil

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Thanks for these answers.

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

I had seven weeks of Salvage radiation When it didn’t affect me at all. I know some people had a little fatigue, but I just went to work and never noticed anything.

Radiation isn’t normally like chemo where you can be sick for a couple of days.

You could follow Dr. Scholz’s advice to just get an SBRT pet scan and zap metastasis. Consider that salvage radiation really only works for 1/3 of people.

Another thing to consider “When PSA rises but can’t find it in the PSMA Pet scan do an MRI, it will be found in Retroperitoneum or lung with high frequency”

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Jeff - when they/ Dr. Scholz & others say salvage radiation only works for 1/3 of the people, what does that mean? That the patient won't get to undetectable after the treatments? the disease will return at 5 years? 10 years? something else? I have read that survival rates after salvage radiation can get as high as 80% under certain conditions (I think this is at 5 years but it could be longer) so I'm trying to understand the differences in the two data points/ opinions. Thanks for the help.

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Profile picture for jaacm1 @jaacm1

Jeff - when they/ Dr. Scholz & others say salvage radiation only works for 1/3 of the people, what does that mean? That the patient won't get to undetectable after the treatments? the disease will return at 5 years? 10 years? something else? I have read that survival rates after salvage radiation can get as high as 80% under certain conditions (I think this is at 5 years but it could be longer) so I'm trying to understand the differences in the two data points/ opinions. Thanks for the help.

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The PCRI conference had doctors discussing what to do with reoccurrence. While salvage radiation has been the standard for quite a long time, the doctors there said that only 1/3 of the cases of reoccurrence were result of metastasis in the area where salvage radiation was done.

So they claim it totally misses the spots where the cancer normally comes back.

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Good conversation to follow. Learning a ton, and that's why I enjoy reading everyone's stories. They are ALL meaningful to someone.

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Profile picture for jeff Marchi @jeffmarc

The PCRI conference had doctors discussing what to do with reoccurrence. While salvage radiation has been the standard for quite a long time, the doctors there said that only 1/3 of the cases of reoccurrence were result of metastasis in the area where salvage radiation was done.

So they claim it totally misses the spots where the cancer normally comes back.

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So if 1/3 of cases are progressing after salvage in this claim , would it not be correct in saying 2/3's are working , not 1/3 ? I dont know if I quite understand what they are trying to say .... If I do the math , I get the obvious , above .

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