Intermediate Risk Prostate Cancer Treatment Decision

Posted by jt14 @jt14, 4 days ago

I have perused comments in these discussion areas and thought I'd reach out for thoughts on the decision of prostatectomy vs radiation therapy. Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
I am 70 years old in good physical condition (no heart, metabolic or obesity issues). Biopsy showed 5 out of 13 specimens positive ranging as below:
all on one side
Group 1 to Group 4
Gleason 3 + 3 to (just one) 4+4
one with "ductal features"
Most recent PSA 4.8
PET scan negative
I believe from a couple of opinions (top notch institutions)
that mine is fairly aggressive and needs treatment not surveillance.
Except for one surgeon who was adamant that his open surgery would be the best option I have heard that I could rationally choose either radiation or surgery as treatment and I am in that the process now of determining best road forward.
I initially leaned toward robotic surgery ("get it out," benefit of pathological report on the prostate cancer, no long term treatment as with radiation and ADT) but after a recent opinion from a surgeon the thoughts of potentially months of urinary incontinence and much larger chance of ED issues has me rethinking this.
On the other hand weeks to months of radiation treatment and ADT along with the side effects of that and 24-36 months of no/low testosterone and no ability for sex, fatigue, osteoporosis, etc. have me likewise hesitant.
My guess is there is no "right" answer in my case but would very much appreciate feedback from personal experience. Thank you all.

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Isn’t the ED risk similar for RT and RP after 3-5 years? Especially if ADT is involved RT can cause even higher ED if I am not mistaken.

In my experience, surgeons told me that anything but surgery would be sheer madness, whereas radiologists were telling me that both were good options. My cancer is 4+4 contained in prostate according to psma and mri.

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@graybeard46

Depending on how important sex is , I can only say I had the surgery with numbers similar to you , plus radiation and 2 hormone shots , the second shot still effecting me with a month left . No ability for sex in almost a year now and had no ED before surgery at 78 . Several friends went the radiation route , 2 of them getting normal erections. I’ve tried vacuum pumps and Trimex injection without success, the few time I was hard enough there was no feeling at all which made me feel like I made the wrong choice, now trying Bimex so far in 3 attempts no luck so will increase the dose , has anyone else have issues with getting penetration but no feeling at all which made me feel like a mechanical robot, need to know if I have an implant will my feeling return if not why do surgery. Dr was not able to spare one nerve , wonder if my body needs more time ?

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I don’t know if this will help, but here is some information from somebody in this forum who has a lot of experience with Trimix
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/my-trimix-experience/

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I was diagnosed Gleason 8 cancer and elected to have surgery. But that didn’t get all the cancer, so 6 months later prostate bed radiation which also failed. Then Lupron / Eligard for a year, then stopped the Eligard but both my Testosterone and PSA remained at zero. I regained the ability to have sex by using either Bimix or Trimix. 3 years after this milestone my cancer returned. A lesion was located near L4 on my left side with PSMA and then I had radiation targeted to that spot. My PSA kept rising even after this radiation so we tried immunotherapy with Provenge which knocked my PSA down 90% but not to zero. A repeat PSMA scan plus a high resolution MRI found nothing near L4 or anywhere else, and a bone scan was also negative. Currently I’m on xtandi + Eligard and my PSA is stable at 3.8+/-.2 for 2 years. It’s been 10 years since I was first diagnosed.

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This is the first time I have heard that Provenge knocked down the PSA right away. It usually is considered something that sort of inoculates one somewhat for future rises, but this immediate response is good to hear.

I also had my L4 compromised, Quite a bit actually. They zapped it in three SBRT sessions because they didn’t want to hit it with too much radiation at once since the L4 was already weakened. My PSA dropped to undetectable in a month and a half, on ADT and Nubeqa before and after.

In your Case you probably have multiple micro metastasis that can’t be seen yet by the PSMA pet scan. A metastasis has to be larger than 2.7 mm, and some case 5 mm, in order to be seen, at the last PCRI conference a doctor (Scholz)said when you can’t find it do an MRI it’ll be found in the lungs or the Retroperitoneum in many cases. I can’t imagine they haven’t looked there considering they did a High resolution MRI.

Have they done an FDG scan? Sometimes the cancer doesn’t produce PSA so that scan can’t see them. An FDG scan can see metastasis That don’t produce PSMA.

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@jeffmarc

I don’t know if this will help, but here is some information from somebody in this forum who has a lot of experience with Trimix
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/discussion/my-trimix-experience/

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Thanks but I had a reaction to Trimex had an ER visit so now just started on Bimex

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@graybeard46

Depending on how important sex is , I can only say I had the surgery with numbers similar to you , plus radiation and 2 hormone shots , the second shot still effecting me with a month left . No ability for sex in almost a year now and had no ED before surgery at 78 . Several friends went the radiation route , 2 of them getting normal erections. I’ve tried vacuum pumps and Trimex injection without success, the few time I was hard enough there was no feeling at all which made me feel like I made the wrong choice, now trying Bimex so far in 3 attempts no luck so will increase the dose , has anyone else have issues with getting penetration but no feeling at all which made me feel like a mechanical robot, need to know if I have an implant will my feeling return if not why do surgery. Dr was not able to spare one nerve , wonder if my body needs more time ?

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You will find many answers in this video , hope it helps .

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I’m sure all of us wish we could give you a definitive answer. I was diagnosed at age 73 last December with Gleason seven (3+4, 4+3) iliac lymph node positive. I started Orgovyx, Christmas Eve and radiation mid February, finishing 44 treatments, April 22. PSA has dropped from 6.4 to 0.01 as of May 22 and will be tested again in July. Fatigue was absolutely horrible in the middle of radiation along with ADT. Now six weeks post radiation, some energy is returning. ED is an intimate friend, But trimix seems to work and I have my first prescription. My wife has been absolutely heroic, supportive and helpful. I’m supposed to be on Orgovyx for two years, but am trying to negotiate either adding Darolutamide after 12 months or simply switching to Darolutamide alone after 12 months. I considered surgery, but the surgeon wasn’t confident that he could access both lymph nodes due to previous hernia repair.

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