Naturally low testosterone and still aggressive tumor?

hanscasteels, some cancers don't respond to ADT (chemical castration resistent), some cancers produce their own testosterone. Somatic testing would give you clues.

When they put you on ADT the testosterone generally drops well below 20. Your Testosterone may have been low, but it is nothing close to what it drops to when you’re on ADT.

As to why? Everyone is different, there is no standard. What type of cancer you have isn’t dependent on A large quantity of testosterone, any decent amount will feed it.

If you got to your cancer a little late, then it can be more severe. It can still be treated, it is usually slow growing.

Testosterone signals prostate cancer cells to multiply (until they eventually mutate and develop the ability to do it themselves), but I don't think the T has to be very high to make that happen; just enough to give a gentle nudge.

The problem isn't the testosterone itself — if you don't have prostate cancer, high testosterone won't give it to you, for example.

I can't say it for sure, but as an opinion of sorts it becomes at some point about the ratio of testosterone to estrogen. So even you have an estrogen that is normal for a man if it is higher up in the range, and the testosterone isn't that great, the ratio becomes low and this make it a "cancer area". This is also saying progesterone factors in because we need that to keep the ratio better, because progesterone reduces estrogen. In other words lower natural testosterone history, and the progesterone has to be sufficient to keep the T/E ratio say 10 or above, so progesterone becomes key to keeping cancer and BPH away.

Prostate cancer cells become saturated by testosterone at serum levels of 150-200 ng/dL. Above that, it makes essentially no difference. I had a testosterone accidentally ordered at my 3 month post SBRT tx a couple of months ago. It was almost 1100 which worried me at first. The rad onc shrugged it off and said it didn't matter. (I'm an otherwise healthy, in my mid-60s, vegan diet, and have never been on ADT or replacement therapy. It's just on the high side for my age.)

I had heard this about progesterone and the “proper” ratios, etc. for a long time. Even took DIM to supposedly balance all the hormones.
But I’ve never heard of any DR recommending progesterone for BPH/ cancer, nor has anyone on this forum ever mentioned taking it - unless I missed that thread.. .
On paper, it should work but like a lot of things with this disease, reality is something else!

Unfortunately most care in the prostate is when it is generally too late. There needs to be a uro-endocrinologist that handles us well before that. And you are right that doesn't exist outside a rare few blogs and a few naturopaths plus even rarer integrative MD's that wrote some things down, but yeah hard to find.

Not only does it come too late, but while all the literature says that every instance is unique, the approach seems to be “this is treatment dogma”. It’s discouraging when one realizes that the narrative doesn’t match reality.

Well still hoping to keep some of my prostate post Tulsa Pro so I have worked on the below based on many youtubes, some naturopath blogs, and an integrative MD. I can't guarantee anything, but it is potentially helpful to some who may need. Feel free to change as needed but go over with your docs of course

Testosterone / estrogen ratios improvement protocol v003

Have a holistic doctor, naturopath, primary care, or other doctor order labs for you and hopefully have useful suggestions. A good testosterone to estrogen ratio for a male that is 40 or older should be around 10 and up, though it is much higher in younger men. That is 10 times more testosterone than estrogen or 10:1. If it is quite a bit lower there are some things you can do.

Symptoms of poor Testosterone / estrogen ratio in men include:

• BPH and sometimes prostate cancer follows
• Low libido
• Hair loss
• Weight gain & body fat
• Gynecomastia (“man-boobs”)
• Erectile dysfunction
• Muscle loss
• Fatigue

Things to do - knowing we are people with prostate problems including PCa.

• If PCa and BPH, don’t take exogenous testosterone (like injections) unless approved by physicians, so only work on natural was to raise the Testosterone portion of the ratio. That would mean exercise, controlling blood sugar, etc.
• Try things to lower estrogen. Some natural ways are cruciferous vegetables. Supplements include Sulforaphane glucosinolate (SGS) and DIM as these derive from cruciferous vegetables. Be sure the DIM and SGS work right for you, as they may not always do the job or an inadequate one. My experience is these don’t work that well.
• Avoid plastic touching food especially hot food, as it has “xenoestrogens” which to the body are just like estrogen. That means dump all plastic storage containers, especially older ones. Some filter all drinking water to get plastics out.
• Talk to your doctor about progesterone as it is a truly natural anti-estrogen but only if ratios are really bad. It is available OTC as well, but you need a very small amount daily with breaks from time to time. Use a low dose suitable for men and doctors ordering labs to help, so it does require a doctors help for that. Trans-mucosal progesterone may produce best results. Progesterone Powder USP, Bioidentical Micronized Powder can be dissolved into tiny amounts with a measuring spoon. For men 1/64 tsp (need a tiny measuring spoon), dissolve in drops of Olive oil on a spoon, mix around with finger. Apply transmucosal or on gum area of mouth 30 minutes before bed. It will make you sleepy, just be aware of that.

Hey Hans, it is more than that - it can get infuriating, so try to keep cool. But they have to start you somewhere in order to see what works and what does not, and that starting point is usually the protocol which works for a great majority of men with PCa.
Not sure how long your DR will keep you on ADT before starting treatment (in my case 10 weeks) but they should know after the first month if your cancer (PSA) is responding or not.
After this initial impression they will tailor the treatment to fit your particular case,