1. < Aging Well

When is Do Not Resuscitate applied

Posted by vuk @vuk, Dec 14, 2024

Wife and I executed Durable PofA for medical and other aspects of taking care of our potential health crises a few months ago w/ an attorney. I am 82 - have Afib, EPI, Emphysema, COPD and a very serious sensitivity to prescription medications while she is 78 and in much better shape than me.

We both included a DNR in our wishes but my question is -
How do we/I know if whatever incapacitates us (i.e stroke, heart attack, etc.) is by itself (without any further efforts to determine how close we are to actual death) a firm indicator that to be 'revived' would be worthless?

Could it be worth reviving me to determine the degree to which I might return to my present 'normal' THEN if no such degree existed going straight to DNR ?

I was thinking that as long as I could live without becoming dependent on my wife or anyone else in any fashion b/c of mental or physical depletion might be worth staying alive for a year or two IF a prognosis to that effect could be rendered; OR if after being 'revived' if I were to have to be on life support of any kind, or a 'ward' of any other person or institution, that would be the 'trigger' 'to use the DNR/pull the plug, etc.

I guess my question is, is there some cautious fashion or some steps by which one does not have to immediately be regarded as "dead' and thereby invoking DNR so I could be SURE that I would not want to go on living (which would be the case if I could not function as a person intact with mental and physical properties but limited only by my constantly ageing.)

I don't think I phrased this very well but I suppose before they let me die I would want to be sure ahead of time that I could not be brought back from a serious issue without proof to my wife and kids that I would accept passing on. And the proof, if existed, would be stipulated by prognosis ahead of time to them)

Living forward at my stage in life is not that big of a deal as I do have health limitations but am lucid mentally, can still get around and drive, can't play golf, or walk long distances, have not had any falls, but can still enjoy coffee with a few friends, enjoy my wife's company and talk to our kids and grand daughter who live down south so what is important to me is that if I have a CHANCE of coming out of a coronary or a stroke etc. and living for a year or two or three WITHOUT BECOMING A BURDEN to anyone in any way, I would like to know there would be an option ahead of time, and if that 'option' rendered me feeble and useless in any way, the DNR would automatically kick in.

Thanks

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Mentor
Laurie, Volunteer Mentor | @roch | Dec 17, 2024

Good discussion and one people should have with partner, kids or whoever may be making decisions for you. People think this is an old age topic, but even someone young needs to think about doing an Advance Care Directive. What if in car accident, your relatives may be facing tough decisions, and if they know your wishes, it will help make those decisions.

I have advance care planning documents and health care proxy. We have discussed my wishes and I am confident that she will honor my wishes. She has a copy and Mayo also has copy scanned into my health record.

I have a good friend whose heart stopped, had CPR and recovered, so I am not ready to say no CPR.

This topic reminds me I should go back and review mine, it is over 15 years old and may need updating.

The National Institute on Aging, has an online document that can help you understand and have conversation about your wishes.
https://order.nia.nih.gov/publication/advance-care-planning-a-conversation-guide
Also, here is an example of an Advance Health Care Directive that Mayo has published: https://mcforms.mayo.edu/mc2100-mc2199/mc2107-07.pdf

REPLY
2 replies
Mentor
Miriam, Volunteer Mentor | @mir123 | Dec 17, 2024
In reply to @bunnybear "I have a sense that my comment above was too harsh b/c usually my comments receive..." + (show)
@bunnybear

I have a sense that my comment above was too harsh b/c usually my comments receive responses but none here. Theses are extremely hard decisions. I just don’t want to suffer, even if in my daughter’s home in a long term dependant state where the best I can do is live in my bed or a chair. And nature may not provide an easy out.

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Your comments were authentic! Don't worry about responses--I like getting them too but often there isn't much of a pattern. Anyway, thinking about this may be difficult but frankly I find NOT talking about it in a family much more stressful.

REPLY
vuk | @vuk | Dec 17, 2024
In reply to @roch "Good discussion and one people should have with partner, kids or whoever may be making decisions..." + (show)
@roch

Good discussion and one people should have with partner, kids or whoever may be making decisions for you. People think this is an old age topic, but even someone young needs to think about doing an Advance Care Directive. What if in car accident, your relatives may be facing tough decisions, and if they know your wishes, it will help make those decisions.

I have advance care planning documents and health care proxy. We have discussed my wishes and I am confident that she will honor my wishes. She has a copy and Mayo also has copy scanned into my health record.

I have a good friend whose heart stopped, had CPR and recovered, so I am not ready to say no CPR.

This topic reminds me I should go back and review mine, it is over 15 years old and may need updating.

The National Institute on Aging, has an online document that can help you understand and have conversation about your wishes.
https://order.nia.nih.gov/publication/advance-care-planning-a-conversation-guide
Also, here is an example of an Advance Health Care Directive that Mayo has published: https://mcforms.mayo.edu/mc2100-mc2199/mc2107-07.pdf

Jump to this post

Not saying No to CPR is my mild dilema now. I would like to word the issue to indicate possibility of CPR be decided or entertained or contingent upon the state of signs of whether patient looks or even tests 'worthy' of CPR. Perhaps,, BP, signs relative to skin, sweating etc a good Dr or really good EMT might be aware of.
Just trying to hedge my bets before going into the near suicide realm of NO CPR PERIOD. 🙂

Of course, that's a bit selfish in a fashion, but it would be a 'long shot' worth taking under the proper circumstances depending upon the EMT, Dr, etc him or herself..

Thanks for the referred sites.

And many thanks to all who responded and sincere best swishes/prayers (whichever all of you on the entire 'Connect' site might wish to be made in your behalves) for all . I can offer both for all.

REPLY
vuk | @vuk | Dec 17, 2024
In reply to @roch "Good discussion and one people should have with partner, kids or whoever may be making decisions..." + (show)
@roch

Good discussion and one people should have with partner, kids or whoever may be making decisions for you. People think this is an old age topic, but even someone young needs to think about doing an Advance Care Directive. What if in car accident, your relatives may be facing tough decisions, and if they know your wishes, it will help make those decisions.

I have advance care planning documents and health care proxy. We have discussed my wishes and I am confident that she will honor my wishes. She has a copy and Mayo also has copy scanned into my health record.

I have a good friend whose heart stopped, had CPR and recovered, so I am not ready to say no CPR.

This topic reminds me I should go back and review mine, it is over 15 years old and may need updating.

The National Institute on Aging, has an online document that can help you understand and have conversation about your wishes.
https://order.nia.nih.gov/publication/advance-care-planning-a-conversation-guide
Also, here is an example of an Advance Health Care Directive that Mayo has published: https://mcforms.mayo.edu/mc2100-mc2199/mc2107-07.pdf

Jump to this post

PS

Having just scanned the Mayo Advance Care Doc you sent, I see some definitely applicable aspects of it which go a long way to help me!
I esp like the Q and A re: how well or unwell I have ot be to accept or perhaps reject a blanket DNR and will try to see if i can simply include such in our own Durable PofA in the name of spcificity. (Michigan)

(Happy safe holidays to all - naturally I'm now playing White Christmas, The Christmas Song etc. (by you know who) and other 'age-appreciated' songs that uplift the child who thankfully still lives inside me and still often looks out thru my older eyes)

((Feel better already!)) 🙂

REPLY
1 reply
joanland | @joanland | Dec 18, 2024
In reply to @vuk "PS Having just scanned the Mayo Advance Care Doc you sent, I see some definitely applicable..." + (show)
@vuk

PS

Having just scanned the Mayo Advance Care Doc you sent, I see some definitely applicable aspects of it which go a long way to help me!
I esp like the Q and A re: how well or unwell I have ot be to accept or perhaps reject a blanket DNR and will try to see if i can simply include such in our own Durable PofA in the name of spcificity. (Michigan)

(Happy safe holidays to all - naturally I'm now playing White Christmas, The Christmas Song etc. (by you know who) and other 'age-appreciated' songs that uplift the child who thankfully still lives inside me and still often looks out thru my older eyes)

((Feel better already!)) 🙂

Jump to this post

Thanks for that reminder to hunt out the Christmas CDs - Ole Tannenbaum, The North Sea Shanty Choir, White Christmas by our favorite, and all the rest. There is probably enough for a CD player full. Thanks for bringing this bit of additional cheer and spirit of the season.

REPLY
1 reply
vuk | @vuk | Dec 18, 2024
In reply to @joanland "Thanks for that reminder to hunt out the Christmas CDs - Ole Tannenbaum, The North Sea..." + (show)
@joanland

Thanks for that reminder to hunt out the Christmas CDs - Ole Tannenbaum, The North Sea Shanty Choir, White Christmas by our favorite, and all the rest. There is probably enough for a CD player full. Thanks for bringing this bit of additional cheer and spirit of the season.

Jump to this post

You're welcome!
I'll soon have 82 yrs worth of memories of where I was for every one of those Xmas seasons and more often than not, every or nearly everyone who was there as well.
That kind of warmth and its attendant 'positive melancholy' can soften the soul and dampen the eyes, regardless of one's age.

Merry Christmas!!!!!

PS - And I almost forgot:

In spite of my age, I still want to watch Charlie Brown Christmas with that famous piano music 🙂

REPLY
1 reply
joanland | @joanland | Dec 18, 2024
In reply to @vuk "You're welcome! I'll soon have 82 yrs worth of memories of where I was for every..." + (show)
@vuk

You're welcome!
I'll soon have 82 yrs worth of memories of where I was for every one of those Xmas seasons and more often than not, every or nearly everyone who was there as well.
That kind of warmth and its attendant 'positive melancholy' can soften the soul and dampen the eyes, regardless of one's age.

Merry Christmas!!!!!

PS - And I almost forgot:

In spite of my age, I still want to watch Charlie Brown Christmas with that famous piano music 🙂

Jump to this post

And I can add 85 yrs worth to the collenction. Fortunately, I kept my Dad's old records, old vinyl, and have those to enjoy as well.

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