Some supplements not really needed?

Posted by njx58 @njx58, Aug 20 5:16pm

I take a supplement that has calcium, D3, and K2-MK4. I'm on board with these. The supplement also has C, magnesium, boron, copper, and manganese. None are in excessive quantity, but I wonder if it's a waste. I'm pretty sure I get these through my diet. I'd like to simplify what I'm taking if possible . I'm not a vegan. Are all these additional items really needed by most people in supplement form? I'm thinking that maybe just the magnesium is useful to supplement.

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@teb

The RDA of 1200 mg is for food and supplementation combined with a maximum of 2000 mg in a day (which really isn't recommended, it's just a cautionary warning). Other countries and the Word Health Organization recommend far less for post menopausal women. I'm like you and can generally get to about 650-700 mg of calcium from food. I don't consume dairy so it's challenging and I need to be very thoughtful about it to make sure I get there. I try to use food as supplementation, eating figs with tahini as a snack when I'm running short on my daily calcium. I might take a supplement at the end of the day of about 300 mg but I prefer not to and questions remain as to whether it's really necessary. I take it mostly out of fear that I might not be getting enough. I think RDA guidelines will eventually be revised downward but until then, we just have to figure out what's right for our bodies which is not an easy task. The only thing that's clear is that calcium from food is protective of the bones and heart. Supplementation is questionable and might even cause harm.

Here's a great article on the subject from Harvard Health:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/how-much-calcium-do-you-really-need

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@teb I also cannot eat dairy and have a lot of food allergies. I take 800mg calcium in a day. Curious what foods get you to 650-700mg daily. I eat a lot of broccoli. Wish I could eat salmon and almonds.

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@windyshores

@teb I also cannot eat dairy and have a lot of food allergies. I take 800mg calcium in a day. Curious what foods get you to 650-700mg daily. I eat a lot of broccoli. Wish I could eat salmon and almonds.

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It's really hard without consuming dairy. Not everyone would feel comfortable with my food choices as they're a bit odd but here goes...
Breakfast is eggs and a mountain of cooked collards. That way I know I'm starting my day with about 350-400 mg of calcium.
I make seed crackers that have chia seeds in them and I add ground baked eggshells to the batter. The eggshells contain high levels of calcium carbonate. Hard to determine the calcium contents of the crackers but it's likely high.
I eat lots and lots of greens; mesclun salads, broccoli and broccolini, kale, bok choy etc. I might make a smoothie with greens powders; Amazing Grass Original and kale powder.
I'll also add Plantation Organic Blackstrap molasses to a smoothie or my cocoa/herb drink which has 145 mg in a Tblsp. It is high in iron and calcium which are competing nutrients but I'm sure some of each is absorbed.
I drink an herbal tea which has nettles and peppermint amongst other herbs which are very nutrient rich particularly in calcium and magnesium. Again, hard to quantify but the nutrients are there in an absorbable medium.
I do eat quite a bit of salmon and the canned salmon with bones is quite high in calcium. I also eat sardines which I detest and the smothering method I use to disguise the taste would likely not be palatable to most.
Gerolsteiner mineral water has about 130 mg in 12 oz. I let the fizz out for awhile before drinking as I hate the carbonation.
Chicken with the bones. I chomp on the bones to get out some of the nutrients. I then make bone broth with the carcasses. High in collagen and nutrients.
The best hack is Eden Black Sesame Tahini which is super high in calcium. I use it like a supplement. If I'm low, I'll take 1 or 2 Tblsp which has around 350-400 mg. It's a strong taste but if you can't eat it straight, you can smear it on toast with some jam or put in a smoothies.

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@teb

The RDA of 1200 mg is for food and supplementation combined with a maximum of 2000 mg in a day (which really isn't recommended, it's just a cautionary warning). Other countries and the Word Health Organization recommend far less for post menopausal women. I'm like you and can generally get to about 650-700 mg of calcium from food. I don't consume dairy so it's challenging and I need to be very thoughtful about it to make sure I get there. I try to use food as supplementation, eating figs with tahini as a snack when I'm running short on my daily calcium. I might take a supplement at the end of the day of about 300 mg but I prefer not to and questions remain as to whether it's really necessary. I take it mostly out of fear that I might not be getting enough. I think RDA guidelines will eventually be revised downward but until then, we just have to figure out what's right for our bodies which is not an easy task. The only thing that's clear is that calcium from food is protective of the bones and heart. Supplementation is questionable and might even cause harm.

Here's a great article on the subject from Harvard Health:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/how-much-calcium-do-you-really-need

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Thanks so much @teb. I feel much better about cutting out my calcium supplement. I, like you, am tempted to add a supplement when I am afraid I'm not getting enough, but it probably isn't needed. It is interesting that the World Health Organization recommends 500 mg and the United Kingdom 700 mg of calcium per day. It seems to be recommended everywhere that getting calcium from food is better than from supplements.

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For those who dislike canned sardines: give canned bone-in anchovies a try. Its nutrition profile is similar to that of canned sardine but more palatable, my opinion. You could use either one to substitute tuna in tuna melt - quite tasty to me.

Also it's worth looking into whey protein powder if you can't have milk, greek yogurt or kefir. Whey protein powder has about 15% calcium rda per serving (double ck product label please). Good quality proteins as well.

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I think eating right is the most important. Plenty of green veggies. Calcium important. No dairy. Not alot of meat. Just common sense eating and exercise.

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@teb

It's really hard without consuming dairy. Not everyone would feel comfortable with my food choices as they're a bit odd but here goes...
Breakfast is eggs and a mountain of cooked collards. That way I know I'm starting my day with about 350-400 mg of calcium.
I make seed crackers that have chia seeds in them and I add ground baked eggshells to the batter. The eggshells contain high levels of calcium carbonate. Hard to determine the calcium contents of the crackers but it's likely high.
I eat lots and lots of greens; mesclun salads, broccoli and broccolini, kale, bok choy etc. I might make a smoothie with greens powders; Amazing Grass Original and kale powder.
I'll also add Plantation Organic Blackstrap molasses to a smoothie or my cocoa/herb drink which has 145 mg in a Tblsp. It is high in iron and calcium which are competing nutrients but I'm sure some of each is absorbed.
I drink an herbal tea which has nettles and peppermint amongst other herbs which are very nutrient rich particularly in calcium and magnesium. Again, hard to quantify but the nutrients are there in an absorbable medium.
I do eat quite a bit of salmon and the canned salmon with bones is quite high in calcium. I also eat sardines which I detest and the smothering method I use to disguise the taste would likely not be palatable to most.
Gerolsteiner mineral water has about 130 mg in 12 oz. I let the fizz out for awhile before drinking as I hate the carbonation.
Chicken with the bones. I chomp on the bones to get out some of the nutrients. I then make bone broth with the carcasses. High in collagen and nutrients.
The best hack is Eden Black Sesame Tahini which is super high in calcium. I use it like a supplement. If I'm low, I'll take 1 or 2 Tblsp which has around 350-400 mg. It's a strong taste but if you can't eat it straight, you can smear it on toast with some jam or put in a smoothies.

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Thanks for sharing this. You have so many good suggestions. I am trying to eat sardines (ug) and want to know how you disguise them. I mash them, use mayo mustard onion . It helps with the struggle to eat them. also would like to know how you finely grind the egg shells. I have tried this in a blender but just cant make them into a powder ...

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@zygote

Thanks for sharing this. You have so many good suggestions. I am trying to eat sardines (ug) and want to know how you disguise them. I mash them, use mayo mustard onion . It helps with the struggle to eat them. also would like to know how you finely grind the egg shells. I have tried this in a blender but just cant make them into a powder ...

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I do something similar on the sardines. I smother them in a lot of mustard and then...wait for it...I cover that in lots of currants. I know it sounds disgusting but it provides a sweet and savory taste that mostly disguises the sardines. It's the only way I can get them down.

Another option is the Season brand of Mackerel which has about 15% of the daily value of calcium. I find them much more palatable than sardines. Eating them over a large dark green salad can give you 25% of your daily value.

I bought a Krups coffee grinder that I only use for herbs and eggshells. It grinds them as fine as you would like. Bake the eggshells at a low/medium temp until they look "done" then store them in the freezer till you use. Alternatively, you can boil them. You can add them into any baked goods. I don't worry too much about the initial baking part as they are baked again into crackers/muffins. You can also sprinkle them onto foods though they are gritty. Supposedly 1/4 tsp contains about 200-250 mg of calcium so you don't need much. According to the American Egg Board, the shell of the egg is composed of calcium carbonate (about 94%) with small amounts of magnesium carbonate, calcium phosphate and other organic matter, including protein.

Another thing I put into the grinder is milk thistle seeds. They are very protective of the liver but there is research suggesting they may help strengthen bones. They are a very safe herb that can be used regularly (though check with your doc) so I bake them into my high potency crackers. They are bitter (one of the reasons they are a liver stimulant) so I add some maple syrup to balance the bitterness which also has a little calcium though "little" is the operative word.

Another great source that @mayblin suggested is Hodo Tofu. Very high in protein and calcium. Three ounces has about 260 mg.

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@kstar077

I think eating right is the most important. Plenty of green veggies. Calcium important. No dairy. Not alot of meat. Just common sense eating and exercise.

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You’re absolutely right. Unfortunately I have Malabsorption Syndrome from a previous surgery. Therefore I need all the supplements since my body can not absorb the nutrients and vitamins that it needs.

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While not as high in calcium, you might want to consider herring.

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@researchmaven

All I can say is that I visited someone I would call a gifted endocrinologist (undergrad at Harvard, that is the real test of genius, then graduate work at Johns Hopkins) and he said that a very large percent of supplements are tainted or do not contain what is claimed. He speculated that as I took so many, that was what was likely causing my liver numbers to spike. I dropped almost all of them and switched to Lactaid milk for my calcium needs. I felt better after doing that. Also, my osteo specialist prefers her patients to get calcium from food.

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I rely on the findings on ConsumerLabs. It's a paid subscription but I find their research on supplements invaluable. They perform in-depth analysis of the supplements they test as well as provide extremely useful information about the vitamins and minerals.

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