I reversed osteoporosis without drugs

Posted by sheilad1 @sheilad1, Dec 28, 2022

I had my bone quality test yesterday along with another bone density test. This was my third bone density test in 14 months.

My first bone density test was Nov 2021.
I started consulting with different doctors. If I must take meds I would. But I had to get to the truth.
The physician who appeared to know the most is Keith McCormick DC the chiropractor who got osteoporosis at a very young age and really understands it.

That first DEXA scan showed I had mild osteoperosis of the spine, within the margin of error.
So no McCormick said to take the CTX (blood) test and a few others.
CTX was good.
My CTX shows that the osteoclasts are not breaking down too much bone. therefore, my next bone density test shouldn’t show that that I am much worse.

I decided not to wait until 2 years for another scan and took
I took another bone density (aka DEXA) scan 10/2022 to see if that was true about the CTX.
My spine was actually better in that scan and it was now osteopenia.
My hip was a little worse bringing it outside the margin of error. McCormick said this was a tough call so I said to him why don’t I get a bone quality test (that he told me about) and I figured that will buy me a little time anyway lol.

Unfortunately, the bone quality test only measures the spine.
Since it’s unusual for your spine to get better and your hip to get worse, it made me think - what have I done differently since the last test? Why would my spine improve but not my hip? What is my spine doing that my hip is not?

I decided it had to be the Supernatural virtual reality exercise app that I exercise to (on the oculus quest VR helmet). Even though I am striking the air, there actually is resistance, and I push hard to hit it as powerfully as I can.

I decided to put weights on my ankles. Everything I read says weight training should be once or twice a week, and I certainly only did it once.

Back to yesterday and the bone quality (TBS) test and yet another bone density (DEXA) test.
My hip was back to where it was on the first test. This put me back inside the margin of error where I would not have to take medication
This demonstrated to me that the CTX score did in fact mean I'm not losing density quickly.
Yesterday's test shows that my spine continued to improve and my bone density score was no longerosteopenia. It was normal. My bone quality test was great. The tech really loved it and called me over to show me how I was completely in the green meaning It was normal which is a little unusual at my age, 74, altogether.

I may be wrong about supernatural helping.
I’ll probably take the DEXA again in six months because I am anxious to see how the hip does, and if it improves even more.
And if so, I’ll turn myself into a study. 😂

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Osteoporosis & Bone Health Support Group.

@osteoresearch

Thank you since I am 62 that is very helpful. And do you do Estradiol and Testosterone or Estradiol and Progesterone??
My HRT doc was recommending starting with testosterone but I’m not sure…..
And was there a reason why you took it while on Evenity vs starting it afterwards?

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I use transdermal estradiol and bioidentical compounded oral progesterone. I'm not sure why your doc is recommending starting with testosterone. Testosterone converts to estrogen and is typically prescribed for low libido in women. So, for estrogen's benefits, you'd have to rely on the conversion vs taking it directly. Some integrative practitioners are using testosterone to help maintain or gain muscle which can have an effect on bone but it's still a bit controversial. There is the risk of male-patterned baldness (which friends have experienced). If you use testosterone, start low and slow to see how it impacts you. I would suggest steering clear of inserted hormone pellets as it is more difficult to monitor and make changes if necessary.

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@windyshores

@teb did you read what I posted? The conclusion was that 5 years was safe and that more research is needed on progesterone.

I would not quibble about anyone choosing HRT. Of course. I realize that hormones only feed already existing cancer cells and are not a cause. But it takes a long time for cancer to develop so we don't all know whether there are cells that will be fed by hormones- until the cancer is apparent.

I believe the WHI was skewed older which increased the risk in the results. Unfortunately there seem to be flaws in every study and many are contradictory, for just about every medical issue.

HRT is not technically "natural" but apparently nature didn't intend for us to live so long.

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yes, I did read it. Experts disagree about a magic cut off at 5 years and with low dose transdermal, it can likely be used safely long-term. Definitely more research is needed but I'm not hopeful we will see it. If one chooses to go on HRT, personally I don't see the point of going on it for 5 years only to go off it and confront hot flashes and bone loss once again (and all of the other menopausal issues) at which point most would have to go on medication anyway. It only prolongs the inevitable. Barring any contraindications and making sure your cardiac profile and risk factors are all okay, I think it's a good choice for many women. I only wish I had started it earlier to prevent the loss I experienced rather than using it to play catch up (which you never entirely do),

Certainly good screening is in order if you use HRT to potentially find any problems early. The WHI was skewed older and sicker which also had an influence on the outcome along with the use of oral premarin. Though HRT is not natural it is something the body recognizes and utilizes in a more natural way than than how pharmaceutical alternatives address bone building. We each have to determine best options for our own situations. In my case, I eventually opted for both sequentially.

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@osteoresearch

Thank you since I am 62 that is very helpful. And do you do Estradiol and Testosterone or Estradiol and Progesterone??
My HRT doc was recommending starting with testosterone but I’m not sure…..
And was there a reason why you took it while on Evenity vs starting it afterwards?

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sorry for the multiple posts on this. I'm just replying to different comments and @osteoresearch, I neglected to address your last question. I didn't use Evenity. I used Forteo. I didn't want to use HRT simultaneously as I wanted to save it for use afterwards as the potential mechanism for maintaining my gains. If I used it concurrently, I'm just not sure it would have had that effect vs introducing it afterwards. We'll likely never know the answer to that but the subsequent use made better sense to me and it seems to have worked well.

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@teb

I went on Forteo to build back some of the density I lost and then went on HRT to maintain. It was about 6 years ago and there was no discussion at the time about HRT as there is now so it was considered novel, unconventional and risky. I felt that none of the drug alternatives were a good match for me due to autoimmune issues and GERD so I advocated for HRT as the most natural approach since it was something my body would recognize and hopefully utilize well. Once I ran through my reasons for rejecting the conventional alternatives with my endocrinologist, he realized it was a good option for me and agreed to prescribe it. HRT used to be an osteoporosis treatment before the WHI debacle and the development of other drugs. Overall, it seems to have worked for me in maintaining the gains I made with Forteo and I hope to stay on it for the rest of my life. That is something to take into consideration as well if deciding to go on HRT as once you stop, you lose bone mass just as you would in menopause or after using an anabolic.

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Can I ask you what gains you had ? Did you do a DEXA ?
I just had a year of Evenity along with BHRT pellets and had a great improvement of T score in my spine . It went from -4.6 to -3.3 . My endo wants me to go on Prolia for a year which will increase my BMD then on to reclast . I’m just wondering if being on my hormone replacement only is enough.

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@kristie2

Can I ask you what gains you had ? Did you do a DEXA ?
I just had a year of Evenity along with BHRT pellets and had a great improvement of T score in my spine . It went from -4.6 to -3.3 . My endo wants me to go on Prolia for a year which will increase my BMD then on to reclast . I’m just wondering if being on my hormone replacement only is enough.

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My gains weren't stellar on Forteo. I did annual Dexa scans. I went from -3.2 to -2.8 the first year but the second year was a bust as I declined to -2.9. I've been somewhat steady on HRT since then.

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Your news is so good. Happy when anyone gets better.

One question, I am plan to begin placing weights at my waist in order to address my femur neck bone density. I understand that the weights have to be placed above the bone that needs to be built up.

For example if you want to build up your spine, upper body weight vest or weight lifting is needed.

If you want to build up your hips then a weight vest, upper body weight lifting or a weighted waist belt is needed.

You mentioned using ankle weights, did you do any upper body weight lifting or wear a weight vest or a weighted waist belt?

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@windyshores

I prefer Keith McCormick and the YouTube video by Dr. Ben Leder entitled "Combining and Sequencing Approaches to Osteoporosis."

In my experience, if your scores are severe, your doctor can advocate with insurance for Tymlos, Forteo or Evenity. Radius, the maker of Tymlos, has "Radius Assist," a program that provides free Tymlos (I did this). I believe it is available for those with incomes below three times the federal poverty line. Other companies have financial assistance as well. If you are under 65 there may be coupons as well. Others can tell you about that.

Once you do a bisphosphonate, I have read and been told, those other bone building drugs may not be as effective. It is commonly known that it is better to start with a bone builder and then "lock in gains" with a bisphosphonate.

Doctors like to limit bisphosphonates to 3-5 years. I am doing Reclast after Tymlos (2 years) and Evenity (4 months) and hope to have a drug holiday soon. We may be off and on meds for life but there is a chance we can use more holistic methods once in a healthy range- I don't know but others may have more experience with that.

I have several fractures and come on here to share that they are painful and disabling!

High urinary calcium is a concern raised previously on this forum What does your doctor say? Tymlos can temporarily raise calcium (for a few hours). Other meds may lower it. I hope you have a good endocrinologist to discuss this with!

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Thanks for sharing your story and I am so sorry you suffered fractures. My endo is pushing Alendronate and didn't seem to see Tymlos as viable. However, my primary care doctor seemed to think starting with HRT was wise; so, I am starting with a very low dose of HRT (vaginal estradiol .5 gram twice weekly). The endo said the high calcium could be due to high calcium in my diet; he will retest in 3 months. He doesn't seem to have knowledge of bone markers, but he said he could run the NTX test, the others (p1NP and CTX) he said aren't offered by Kaiser.

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@moxiegirl

Thanks for sharing your story and I am so sorry you suffered fractures. My endo is pushing Alendronate and didn't seem to see Tymlos as viable. However, my primary care doctor seemed to think starting with HRT was wise; so, I am starting with a very low dose of HRT (vaginal estradiol .5 gram twice weekly). The endo said the high calcium could be due to high calcium in my diet; he will retest in 3 months. He doesn't seem to have knowledge of bone markers, but he said he could run the NTX test, the others (p1NP and CTX) he said aren't offered by Kaiser.

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I read in "Great Bones" by McCormick that NTX is similar to CTX but check with the lab if you are unsure!

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@sonodeka

Also about hrt, my doc also emphasized the importance of keeping up with exercise and nutrition no matter the treatment. I certainly wasn't planning to stop.

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My husband has 3 compression fractures on his spine that are now stabilizing. He was restricted to lifting no more than 5 pounds and no bending for about 6-8 weeks. The doctor says because they're stabilizing he can lift a bit more and can do some very careful bending. Still cautious about bending at the waist to pick things up.

He'd like to exercise again and talks about wanting to use resistance bands. I'm not sure that's the best form of exercise when someone has had three recent fractures and am afraid once he gets started doing them again he might slip and overdo it. Any suggestions on the best forms of exercise for someone in his situation?

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Can someone please explain what HRT is? I've never heard of it. (Just looked it up and it appears to be for women. My husband is the one with osteoporosis.)

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