1. < Neuropathy

PN and handwriting …

Posted by Ray Kemble @ray666, Jul 23 9:06am

Somewhere in the recesses of my mind I seem to recall one of my neurologists asking if I'd noticed that my handwriting had deteriorated. It seems he said that a worsening handwriting is sometimes suspected to be a symptom of PN. I do a lot of writing by hand. I've always prided myself on being able to write anywhere, anytime, without having to tote a 'device' along, ever vigilant to how long before the device's battery will need recharging. But all that aside, I have noticed that my handwriting, never a penmanship champ, has grown ever more illegible, even to me. More and more, I find myself in the middle of typing into MS Word something I'd written by hand only a few hours earlier and muttering, 'Huh?' A deteriorating handwriting is hardly PN's most devastating symptom, but, if true, it sure is one of PN's most curious symptoms. Has anyone else found themselves staring at something they've written by hand and muttering, 'Huh?'

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

Mentor
John, Volunteer Mentor | @johnbishop | Jul 27 7:41am
In reply to @njed "@ray666 Ray, two quick comments. First, back in basic training, our drill instructor would not only..." + (show)
@njed

@ray666 Ray, two quick comments. First, back in basic training, our drill instructor would not only snap on the lights at 4:30 AM but before turning on the lights at 4:29AM, he would throw a metal trash can down between the bunks and scare the you know what out of all of us. Second, in the last 4 years, I mainly wear golf style 3 button shirts and the button-down collars on dress shirts, they got tossed a few years back. Could never quite understand why the collar had to be buttoned down. And if the hole and button were there, we could not just ignore it. Thanks to PN, pull over 3 button shirts became popular with me with the top two buttons not buttoned at all. Next will be all T-shirts. 🙂 Ed

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Ed, that brought a smile to my face on this lovely overcast Saturday morning. I love my pocket T shirts, along with 2 or 3 button Henleys and Polo shirts. I have long sleeve winter versions also. I'm late to this discussion but also have the PN writing issue. I stopped writing cursive when I took a plant job with IBM in 1978 at Rochester writing technical manuals for customer engineers who had to service the products in the field which is what I did prior to taking the plant job. Before computers we had to hand print drafts of manuals on 11x17 paper which was then used by the production department to input the manuals to the printers. Now with my somewhat shaky hands my signature is never the same each time I sign my name 🙃 I've often thought of just signing with an X to see if I would get a reaction but I would hate to get a bounced check.

REPLY
Ray Kemble | @ray666 | Jul 27 8:42am
In reply to @njed "@ray666 Ray, two quick comments. First, back in basic training, our drill instructor would not only..." + (show)
@njed

@ray666 Ray, two quick comments. First, back in basic training, our drill instructor would not only snap on the lights at 4:30 AM but before turning on the lights at 4:29AM, he would throw a metal trash can down between the bunks and scare the you know what out of all of us. Second, in the last 4 years, I mainly wear golf style 3 button shirts and the button-down collars on dress shirts, they got tossed a few years back. Could never quite understand why the collar had to be buttoned down. And if the hole and button were there, we could not just ignore it. Thanks to PN, pull over 3 button shirts became popular with me with the top two buttons not buttoned at all. Next will be all T-shirts. 🙂 Ed

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@njed Ed, how could I have the 4:29 trash can?!?!! My DI rolled one of those, too. Rolling a steel trash can down the center aisle must have been a standard part of DI training. I wonder if nowadays they replaced those old steel cans with rubberized ones. The charm would be lost, wouldn't it? 🙂 –Ray @ray666

REPLY
lautwell | @lautwell | Jul 27 10:13am

Hello. Interesting conversation to me as I definitely have connected my increased difficulty in writing to my PN. My PN has been a 12 year path. Some years ago (while I was still working), I noticed I started writing all my notes (especially stickie reminders) at a slant. My penmanship had always been really nice, but now it was still nice…but at a slant. As my PN progressed, the deterioration in my ability to write increased to where (today) it’s difficult to sign my name. My handwriting is now a scrawl. Tedious forms frustrate me to tears. Along with the loss of handwriting, came my distrust of my right hand to do anything without me watching it (e.g. carrying a cup of coffee). It’s been a series of losses, but I am most sad about my handwriting. Currently, I’m looking at things that might help such as pencil grips, hand brace, OT by a hand specialist, compression glove/sleeve and maybe using verbal dictation more to make notes on my phone or journal on my computer. I’m thankful I can still use a keyboard (even if I have to retype 2-3 times.). I remind myself daily there are worse things in life. To those struggling with buttons, I noticed Duluth Trading has some nice men’s shirts with magnetic buttons that look totally real. For earrings, I’m finding I do better with types of closures that don’t have a separate back. Etsy gave me some new options. Wishing the best all to everyone here…stay encouraged…there are worse things in life! 😉

REPLY
3 replies
Ray Kemble | @ray666 | Jul 27 10:39am

Good morning!

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at how many of us PNers have responded to my initial post. However, I am surprised because, for the longest time, I dismissed my deteriorating handwriting as in any way related to neuropathy. Of course, my ego also refused to allow that my increasingly indecipherable scribbling had anything to do with my getting older. 🙂 I now accept that that scrawl I see coming out of the nib of my Vision Elite pen is a complicated (and at times laughable) combination of PN and age. Ah, the adventure of being alive!

Ray (@ray666)

REPLY
Ray Kemble | @ray666 | Jul 27 1:04pm
In reply to @lautwell "Hello. Interesting conversation to me as I definitely have connected my increased difficulty in writing to..." + (show)
@lautwell

Hello. Interesting conversation to me as I definitely have connected my increased difficulty in writing to my PN. My PN has been a 12 year path. Some years ago (while I was still working), I noticed I started writing all my notes (especially stickie reminders) at a slant. My penmanship had always been really nice, but now it was still nice…but at a slant. As my PN progressed, the deterioration in my ability to write increased to where (today) it’s difficult to sign my name. My handwriting is now a scrawl. Tedious forms frustrate me to tears. Along with the loss of handwriting, came my distrust of my right hand to do anything without me watching it (e.g. carrying a cup of coffee). It’s been a series of losses, but I am most sad about my handwriting. Currently, I’m looking at things that might help such as pencil grips, hand brace, OT by a hand specialist, compression glove/sleeve and maybe using verbal dictation more to make notes on my phone or journal on my computer. I’m thankful I can still use a keyboard (even if I have to retype 2-3 times.). I remind myself daily there are worse things in life. To those struggling with buttons, I noticed Duluth Trading has some nice men’s shirts with magnetic buttons that look totally real. For earrings, I’m finding I do better with types of closures that don’t have a separate back. Etsy gave me some new options. Wishing the best all to everyone here…stay encouraged…there are worse things in life! 😉

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"It's been a series of losses, but I am most sad about my handwriting."

Me, too, @lautwell. Because I'd never learned to touch-type, I'm acutely aware of the loss of legible handwriting.

When I sit with pen and paper, I can keep up with my thoughts: what comes out of my pen is usually only a nano-second behind the thought I'd had only a nano-second before. Sure, my handwriting will look like ****, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.

However, when I sit at a keyboard with my thoughts zipping along but my unschooled fingertips with no chance of keeping up, it's like the MS Word cursor on my Mac screen is forever hollering at me, 'Come on, Ray, shake a leg!' 🙂

Ray (@ray666)

REPLY
Ray Kemble | @ray666 | Jul 27 4:35pm
In reply to @cheyne "Hi Ray, I had to stop all meds for a breath test recently and never restarted..." + (show)
@cheyne

Hi Ray,
I had to stop all meds for a breath test recently and never restarted most of them.
I'm noticeable better off meds, but then the organs complain!
Facing not seeing 2025 so it really only matters that I take the BP pill to keep the intense migraine at bay, for my sanity. More often than not I'm getting less than desirable days now, but on a good day I try to take full advantage of the time available. With ANS more in control of me than I am, I just make do with what I can at the time. I could forego everything but the BP meds and nothing would change. Been living with negative stats for everything with no meds for well over 30 years and I'm still here. Not even 15 TIA's over 3 days last year could slow me, just kept on chugging along.
I'm getting a bigger collection of health issues as time goes on and am not sure what to do with them! They don't bother me and I don't think about them often, I'm beyond caring now. I work with the thought if I wake up on a day then I'll deal with what comes my way. If I don't wake up I'm pretty sure I won't be too concerned.
Cheers.

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"I'm getting a bigger collection of health issues as time goes on and am not sure what to do with them!"

Hi, @cheyne–– Sometimes, it seems like aging is all about collecting things: health issues, most definitely; also, the names, phone numbers, and office addresses of all sorts of specialists; appointments, test results, prescriptions, and 'assistance' devices like walkers, canes, braces, orthotics, hearing aids––the list goes on and on. Seeing my own personal collection starting to grow, a couple of years ago (but when it was already too late), I attempted a little medical clutter-clearing: fewer specialists, fewer prescriptions, fewer appointments, etc. It wasn't too long before I realized that my attempt at medical clutter-clearing was a lost cause. Alas. ––Ray (@ray666)

REPLY
1 reply
cheyne | @cheyne | Jul 27 6:21pm
In reply to @ray666 ""I'm getting a bigger collection of health issues as time goes on and am not sure..." + (show)
@ray666

"I'm getting a bigger collection of health issues as time goes on and am not sure what to do with them!"

Hi, @cheyne–– Sometimes, it seems like aging is all about collecting things: health issues, most definitely; also, the names, phone numbers, and office addresses of all sorts of specialists; appointments, test results, prescriptions, and 'assistance' devices like walkers, canes, braces, orthotics, hearing aids––the list goes on and on. Seeing my own personal collection starting to grow, a couple of years ago (but when it was already too late), I attempted a little medical clutter-clearing: fewer specialists, fewer prescriptions, fewer appointments, etc. It wasn't too long before I realized that my attempt at medical clutter-clearing was a lost cause. Alas. ––Ray (@ray666)

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Hi Ray,
I have just discovered my Gastro specialist is the one I should have been speaking to about my bowels and bladder problems. I guess we have some talking due next week when I see him again. Slowly coming to terms with this disease, still a struggle when I think about it but as long as I can look past it at moments it doesn't hurt anywhere as much. Something to be said about putting the head in the sand! Let the fluid intake slip yesterday and a long anticipated meal of oysters and a few chips ripped the throat up. Fortunately typing doesn't involve the throat. I can no longer think of the odd days when ANS affects me it is now the odd days when it doesn't affect me. Started blacking out again, fortunately it only happens when I'm sitting trying to relax. I'm not sure if it is the ANS or not. The eyes don't shut and I have no knowledge of the time lost. I come too in the same position as I left off, Usually 1 to 2 hour elapse. Need to keep a check on it.
She is shaping up to be a day of watching movies by the feel of things. Gloomy overcast typical winters day, heating jambed of full blast, gloves and hat on to keep them warm and a cup of tea waiting to be poured, soothes the throat.
As long as they keep giving me meds the cluttering continues as I don't take the meds I'm supposed to, just the ones that ease the main problem.
Cheers

REPLY
1 reply
NJ Ed | @njed | Jul 28 5:47am
In reply to @lautwell "Hello. Interesting conversation to me as I definitely have connected my increased difficulty in writing to..." + (show)
@lautwell

Hello. Interesting conversation to me as I definitely have connected my increased difficulty in writing to my PN. My PN has been a 12 year path. Some years ago (while I was still working), I noticed I started writing all my notes (especially stickie reminders) at a slant. My penmanship had always been really nice, but now it was still nice…but at a slant. As my PN progressed, the deterioration in my ability to write increased to where (today) it’s difficult to sign my name. My handwriting is now a scrawl. Tedious forms frustrate me to tears. Along with the loss of handwriting, came my distrust of my right hand to do anything without me watching it (e.g. carrying a cup of coffee). It’s been a series of losses, but I am most sad about my handwriting. Currently, I’m looking at things that might help such as pencil grips, hand brace, OT by a hand specialist, compression glove/sleeve and maybe using verbal dictation more to make notes on my phone or journal on my computer. I’m thankful I can still use a keyboard (even if I have to retype 2-3 times.). I remind myself daily there are worse things in life. To those struggling with buttons, I noticed Duluth Trading has some nice men’s shirts with magnetic buttons that look totally real. For earrings, I’m finding I do better with types of closures that don’t have a separate back. Etsy gave me some new options. Wishing the best all to everyone here…stay encouraged…there are worse things in life! 😉

Jump to this post

Magnetic buttons! Wow...if they make it, there is a market for it. I will let my wife know, she is always scratching her head trying to figure out what to get me for Christmas and birthday gifts. Very interesting, thanks.

REPLY
Debbie | @dbeshears1 | Jul 28 6:59am
In reply to @lautwell "Hello. Interesting conversation to me as I definitely have connected my increased difficulty in writing to..." + (show)
@lautwell

Hello. Interesting conversation to me as I definitely have connected my increased difficulty in writing to my PN. My PN has been a 12 year path. Some years ago (while I was still working), I noticed I started writing all my notes (especially stickie reminders) at a slant. My penmanship had always been really nice, but now it was still nice…but at a slant. As my PN progressed, the deterioration in my ability to write increased to where (today) it’s difficult to sign my name. My handwriting is now a scrawl. Tedious forms frustrate me to tears. Along with the loss of handwriting, came my distrust of my right hand to do anything without me watching it (e.g. carrying a cup of coffee). It’s been a series of losses, but I am most sad about my handwriting. Currently, I’m looking at things that might help such as pencil grips, hand brace, OT by a hand specialist, compression glove/sleeve and maybe using verbal dictation more to make notes on my phone or journal on my computer. I’m thankful I can still use a keyboard (even if I have to retype 2-3 times.). I remind myself daily there are worse things in life. To those struggling with buttons, I noticed Duluth Trading has some nice men’s shirts with magnetic buttons that look totally real. For earrings, I’m finding I do better with types of closures that don’t have a separate back. Etsy gave me some new options. Wishing the best all to everyone here…stay encouraged…there are worse things in life! 😉

Jump to this post

Brilliant idea magnetic buttons! I’m going to start googling for women’s garments. I have had Occupational Therapy over the years for my hands. Wherever I lived, my legs/walking fell under “Physical” Therapy and my hands fell under “Occupational” Therapy, so it was an extra appointment scheduling burden since I had to have different therapists, so I don’t do the hand therapy anymore. But I do a lot of the exercises they gave me which have been really helpful.

My favorite is taking skittles or jelly beans and picking them up individually to separate them into colors. Then I eat some as a reward when done (don’t do if you’re diabetic, find a different small object, but it helps me with picking up pills) Dice games are a good way to exercise too in a fun way, but pick-up sticks and jacks were too hard for me. I no longer use the fat pencils and special grips for forks and knives, but I’m not ashamed for my regular cup at home to have a slide top so I’m safe if I accidentally knock my cup over; and I know not to even attempt stemmed water glasses anywhere I go!

REPLY
Ray Kemble | @ray666 | Jul 28 12:52pm
In reply to @cheyne "Hi Ray, I have just discovered my Gastro specialist is the one I should have been..." + (show)
@cheyne

Hi Ray,
I have just discovered my Gastro specialist is the one I should have been speaking to about my bowels and bladder problems. I guess we have some talking due next week when I see him again. Slowly coming to terms with this disease, still a struggle when I think about it but as long as I can look past it at moments it doesn't hurt anywhere as much. Something to be said about putting the head in the sand! Let the fluid intake slip yesterday and a long anticipated meal of oysters and a few chips ripped the throat up. Fortunately typing doesn't involve the throat. I can no longer think of the odd days when ANS affects me it is now the odd days when it doesn't affect me. Started blacking out again, fortunately it only happens when I'm sitting trying to relax. I'm not sure if it is the ANS or not. The eyes don't shut and I have no knowledge of the time lost. I come too in the same position as I left off, Usually 1 to 2 hour elapse. Need to keep a check on it.
She is shaping up to be a day of watching movies by the feel of things. Gloomy overcast typical winters day, heating jambed of full blast, gloves and hat on to keep them warm and a cup of tea waiting to be poured, soothes the throat.
As long as they keep giving me meds the cluttering continues as I don't take the meds I'm supposed to, just the ones that ease the main problem.
Cheers

Jump to this post

Hi, @cheyne

I'm sending this brief message to those at Mayo Connect with whom I regularly correspond to say that I'll be more off-line than on- in the coming week. I have a contract deadline of 8/5 that's going to keep me pretty busy. As I'm telling all of my Connect acquaintances, I wish you good, good week. Stay well. Keep your spirits up. I'll be back on-line 24/7 as soon as I've met my contract deadline.

Cheers!
Ray (@ray666)

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