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DiscussionAre Antivirals and/or Antibiotic cocktails the Cure for LC?
Post-COVID Recovery & COVID-19 | Last Active: Jul 10 1:11pm | Replies (35)Comment receiving replies
Hi Geraldine!
Sorry things are so tough! I think we can all relate — definitely sucks losing your life within days!!
There’s a lot here you’ve mentioned…
As far as docs go, I’ve been to MANY! And I’ve been in the UCLA system seeing specialists without success. Personally, I wanted to find someone who wasn’t part of a large teaching institution for a more comprehensive and unified treatment approach - an all-in-one doctor. Not a million docs who then never piece it all together!
After reading an article in Nat Geo on LC specialists commenting on treatment and findings, I tracked down one of the quoted docs to a privately owned clinic in California and Washington called Centers for Complex Diseases. They don’t take insurance but will give you super bills to bill your own insurance. It’s expensive but getting my life back is worth it!
My doc is thorough and understands chronic diseases, which is what LC is. Most docs don’t know what to think or do with chronic illnesses, except symptom management which never addresses the upstream causes so people stay stuck in a vicious cycle of never getting better only med side effects. Or they think it’s mental, argh!
As I’ve mentioned, I want upstream causes answers, and treatment for those not downstream symptom management.
My infectious disease doc explained that the EBV, VZV, and other herpes viruses that most docs interpret as past infections can actually be continued activation if the IgG levels are higher than 500. Example: my EBV is >600 U/ml. It was tested years ago after my acute Covid infection in 2019 (was the same value as today), but the doc who interpreted it was only looking for a positive IgM which shows “acute” infection. Any high IgG levels all docs interpret as old infections.
My ID doc explains that IgM is first line of defense, then IgG kicks in and that both should go down once infection has been cleared. However the IgG antibodies stay slightly elevated for recognition should one be exposed again. But too high of IgG means that there’s a chronic infection the body is still fighting.
So having a doc who understands what levels of IgG are too high is important.
I’m not gonna say I have answers to what the cure is as it’s individual per understanding each person’s underlying infections causing things.
As for my path, Bartonella, Lyme’s were both negative. But my viral loads are high in EBV and VZV. And pretty sure I have SIBO which has been an off and on issue most of my life. I have some other bacterial infections that show high as well but until I see my doc again I’m not sure if these need to be addressed yet…
The fact that both Pax and antibiotics have helped me feel better for a few weeks and months gives an indication that underlying infections are the root cause of my issues.
Now it’s about finding the right meds to treat them! I think it’s going to be a combination and time that will tell what each is…
Rifaximin is helping but not all the way. I didn’t actually take my course of Valacyclovir due to concern about my liver after taking Pax for so long. But it’s all good now! So I’m going to start Valacyclovir in 2 days after my Rif is done.
My doc also explained that sometimes we feel better after antibiotics as it clears everything out of the gut, but then it grows back, that’s why repeated Rif is done. I read a randomized control trial of Rifaximin 7 day course done for 3 consecutive months which showed improvement in symptoms and beneficial flora post treatment.
However, I do think it’s not just bacterial but viral loads that need to be addressed. At least for me and sounds like maybe for you too since your herpes loads were high.
Just curious: were H-pylori, celiacs, SIBO tests done?
And I’m imagining you’ve done lowFODMAP, or other dietary changes?
Have your tried Pepcid (H2 blocker) and Prilosec for heartburn? They’re downstream symptom management but could help with sleep and quality of life.
Also, my doc looks for autoimmune diseases along with everything else too! Super thorough! But like >$20k of labs. Worth it though! And she’s super nice! Takes >6 months to get in. You have to write an email to see if they’ll accept you.
I hope you and we all find answers and help! 🙏🏻
Replies to "Hi Geraldine! Sorry things are so tough! I think we can all relate — definitely sucks..."
Thanks so much for your indepth reply, I've already spent $30,000 out of pocket for my care for the last few years. For 10 months I even had a nurse helping me as I felt too awful to drive to Dr appointments and do basic things, that alone cost $10,000. Not to mention doctors who don't take insurance, acupuncture, massage, tried Naturopath, even went to therapist when I felt so frustrated in the beginning with lack of any comprehensive care, and unbelievable waits to even get a doctor appt, I felt so helpless and hopeless. The worst thing as you say is the being treated for individual symptoms, although some are so bad you are grateful if any go away, like my thyroid being knocked off line and the meds I'd taken for 35 years with no problem no longer worked, so I got cardiac problems related to that. Thankfully thyroid removal seems to have at least fixed that scary thing.
Yes I have done every test known to man, tested positive for SIBO Hydrogen, and have just ordered the blood test for the food poisoning antibodies too, as that could add some treatment options if the Rifaximin doesn't work. Did colonoscopy and endoscopy 18 mos ago which basically showed nothing wrong, so with my latest bout of wicked IBSD/Sibo and reflux, for now my GI doc just said go right to Rifaximin see if that helps. PPI'S and Histamine blocker didn't really work for my current Reflux, but maybe I didn't take them long enough, as we decided to go to Rifaximin thinking the extreme bloating from SIBO etc might be causing the reflux and mobility dysregulation. My throat and esophagus are really irritated, so he might want me to do the PPI's again but they didn't help much before. Did they help you?
Some ideas that might help you. Dr Pimentel advised, and 2 women developed an Elemental diet you do for 2 weeks, they've done clinical trials and had 80% success rate with SIBO, its called M Biota and supposedly tastes a lot better than the other ones out there, so people stick to it better. People who have had only temporary or no good result from Rifaximin are having some success with it. If my round of Rifaximin doesn't work or hold up for long , I'm going to try that next. Its $700 for the 2 weeks of drinks, but they will give you a 25% discount which is less than the $700 copay I have for Rifaximin. I'm also on my own going to do an Amy Myers gut repair concoction, couldn't hurt, and I just started the low inflammation diet Dr Pimentel developed, its a lot more food inclusive than Low Fodmap, much easier to stick to. He also is big on not eating for 4 hours between meals, which is really hard for me when I'm so bloated, because I can't eat much at once then get really hungry before 4 hours! Also you probably already know, not eating for 4 hours before dinner and elevating the head of your bed 6 to 8", which I did but doesn't help enough for now, I still need to prop myself up on pillows and "sleep" on left side only, and am still having reflux at night uugh!
Thanks to you I'm going to recheck my blood work ( can you believe how much bloodwork and tests we've done with this? ) to see my exact numbers for lgG for the EBV and Herpes, probably the only medical person I am "seeing" who would even be open to the numbers thing your doctor believes, is the Stanford chronic fatigue clinic, because they see a lot of LC people. If my numbers are higher than 500 I'll try to bug them about that with the info you provided. What did your doctor recommend for treatment? In Begining of May I'll be going to Rheumatologist Stanford Clinic is making me go to, but probably a waste of time. The most frustrating thing of all is the doctors are sympathetic, but they just focus on their specialty and don't communicate with one another, and are all to happy to foist you onto another specialist. My sister is at Kaiser and they really aren't any better although they communicate with one another, they still send LC people to individual specialists for symptom treatment, no real overall approach at least not yet. Why can't they catch on that something underlying is driving all these symptoms we suddenly got after covid? Before Covid I was healthy active person.
I'll look into the place you're going now, although spending even more big chunk of money is not appealing. Although IF I were SURE it would fix me, I'd be willing to pay a lot! Hope my info about Rifaximin experience and the new Elemental diet endorsed by Dr Pimentel is at least helpful for you, but hope for you and for me one round of Rifaximin will do it. Geraldine gbw on this site