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After knee replacement surgery

Joint Replacements | Last Active: Oct 27, 2021 | Replies (618)

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@challie

This fall I'm undergoing TKR, my first. I'm currently talking with Mayo Rochester MN. (Was previously scheduled for 4/14/17 in Roch but 4/11 my appendix burst and I almost bit the dust.) Ten years ago my husband had both of his replaced (in Illinois--we've moved), six months apart.

Ten years ago: he used the passive motion machine for both knees, both in hospital and home; he had an electronic ice machine (like a cooler with a motor) that pumped ice water through the giant pads; he went to physical therapy for a few weeks, that after he had in-home therapy for a couple weeks. But my, how things have changed! Also ten years ago his doctor said if he didn't have TERRIFIC pain control he wouldn't do what he was supposed to and his knees would not heal properly.

For the most part the passive motion machines have been done away with as *many studies showed that a year or two after surgery there was no difference in those who used one and those who didn't. Many docs believe using your own muscles more quickly begins the resuming of strength more quickly. There is more to recovery than degrees of bend; strength matters too. So, no machine for me since doc doesn't believe in them. Guess after wrangling around with that giant machine after my husband's surgery, I'm inclined to think doing without makes sense.

The only people I know lately who've used an electronic ice machine purchased one themselves. I'm assuming this has to do with insurance. ??? They were a God-send for my hubby so I'll be getting one on my own dime whereas he was given (well, insurance paid) a new one with each surgery.

I'm now being told I will not have any official therapy unless my at-home, on-my-own post-op therapy is not productive. My Mayo doc said there are too many too-aggressive therapists, and there's nothing you can't do at home that's done the same with a therapist watching. It's discipline that matters--PLUS being very gentle with the leg that first while, which is apparently when we're most vulnerable to a therapist over-doing things. I have heard stories on both sides of this coin, but more than not people did admit their therapists pushed so hard, the pain was so bad, that they sometimes had to skip the next day's work. (Other side of coin: my husband loved his therapist who he partially credits with how well he did. He also had a terrific surgeon.) I've also heard there is a case to be made that we are more susceptible to infection at therapy facilities. I guess that makes sense.

Today pain meds and their abuse are under fire. However, if you're in too much pain to properly do your exercises, where does that leave you? I do know there's certain amounts of pain we just need to gut through. But good pain control so I can properly exercise will be something I'll go to bat for.

All this to say ... My how things have changed.

I wish everyone well and am firing up prayers and healing thoughts as I type. I notice nobody mentions Doc names. Perhaps there is a rule? It would be great to compare docs' thinking.

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Replies to "This fall I'm undergoing TKR, my first. I'm currently talking with Mayo Rochester MN. (Was previously..."

@challie, @contentandwell Hi again. Interesting how many things you hear that are different and I wonder where the truth lies. I had heard that the discontinued use was because as the replacements lasted longer without the use of the passive motion machine (pmm)! I just had both knees x-rayed as I have a walking project as I am fighting to stay out of wheelchair due to my rare form of muscular dystrophy to check on the TKR's, now 13 and 11 years old. And though I had the pmm, neither show ANY signs of wear and since Aug of 2016, I now have walked 110 miles that I have actually measured with a measuring wheel tied to my left cane, and this does not include any other walking thru the day either inside or outside. Before I bought a measuring wheel the VP here at the retirement community measured with a 10 inch wheel the distance of the circular road on the South campus here. I bought a 4 inch wheel and though the total distance is 0.5845 miles, we differened only 1 FOOT from our separate measurements so I know my 110.6045 miles is pretty close to be the actual distance. We both measured to the 4th place! I just learned he measured it while on a bike and I when walking!!!!!!!! gailfaith

@challie I believe what you were told about the passive motion machines is the same that I heard when I turned mine in. Some patients feel they help but many do not. I would love to have one of the icing machines. Any idea of the cost if you cannot get a prescription? I plan to ask my surgeon about that.

I am sure there is more to recovery than flex degrees which for me never got where it should have but my knee is reasonably strong. It does hurt though still at times and I cannot flex it well. If I try to kneel on it, it really hurts and occasionally at other times too.

I had an at home therapist and he was great, definitely not overly aggressive but very helpful and very supportive. I have had him two times, after a knee replacement and then again after my transplant. They give you therapy to help you get back on your feet after transplant. The therapist I had at a center is also great. I had him two times but not for my first knee replacement. I think I have been very fortunate in that regard. I have had physical therapists in the past for other things and none were too aggressive except for one, the one I had after the first knee replacement. She was aggressive and pushed my knee to get it to flex more, to the point where I literally screamed. Seriously, that cannot be good. I was not working at the time but the pain was not so bad that it put me out of commission the next day.

Regarding to the therapy center I went to, I think it was a good center, I had 3 or 4 sessions a day of various types of therapy but I cannot honestly say how much that helped. This ortho though is very opposed to the centers because of the higher incidence of infections and now that I am on immunosuppressants there is no way I would risk that.

I have never heard of a rule about naming doctors but most people would not mention a doctor's name if they were going to say anything negative I think. With all the legal cases who would want someone to say they damaged their reputation? Certainly not me. I happily will mention my transplant surgeon's name - Dr. Nahel Elias. He is the best in my opinion. My ortho whom I am going to for the knee replacement is Dr. Wolfang Fitz whom I hear nothing but good about. He is one of the developers of the Conformis knee which is custom made for each patient -- no "pick a close knee off the shelf". He gives you other options, I would imagine he would have to because just doing his would be considered a conflict in interest probably. There are other doctors who use that knee also, you can find them if you google Conformis. Before the surgery you have a CT for them to use to manufacture the knee. That is done about 6 weeks prior to surgery.

JK

Very thorough report of good information for many.

@contentandwell Re your question about the ice machine, I Googled the following phrase and a bunch of pictures of renditions of them came up with direct links to the product. When you put prescribed amounts of ice and water in the machine, then Velcro on the large pads (they come in different sizes/styles) the machine can run for hours and hours with very cold ice water running through the implement. MORE than dandy and a helpful saving grace, including for those trying to continually repack ice bags and keep them where they belong.

electronic ice machines for healing

Thanks for doc info, although he's out of my zone. I would be interested in GOOD doc experiences, if anyone wants to mention. I have met with a doc but he didn't seem to fully notice I was in the room, mostly talking over his shoulder and responding to my questions with a spirit of "never mind all of that." I'd rather have a gifted surgeon than a social icon, but there is a middle ground ...

I will research types of knees available today too. When DH had his done, he had a different knee in each leg. Knees done six months apart; same doctor; different hospitals due to scheduling. The second hospital hadn't approved the knee put in first leg, which was a "boutique" knee, as doc described it. DH has done well with both. But the knee selection was really important to that doc and I agree: makes a big difference.

Thanks for kudos @maryx1937

@gailfaith Sounds like you're going strong and finding great ways to check how you're doing. GO YOU! That's inspiring.

I too will be having TKR in the Fall. In response to your thought about mentioning doctors I would be interested in hearing about good experiences. And who did theirs? If it ok

@10nsmom Hi. From what I can tell the surgeon who did both of my knees did the best job that I can see compared to what others are reporting. After the first 24 hours I had no pain, never needed to use a cane to walk and when I went for my first follow up check, I was in their waiting room when the nurse came to get me. She asked where was my cane and when I told her I never needed one, she said we are going to put you on a pedestal in the waiting room. That was 13 years ago. Now when I went back for another check as now I am doing A LOT OF WALKING (OVER 110 MILES THE IN LAST 10 MONTHS), neither knee shows any wear. That surgeon was at the Rothman Institute in Philadelphia, across the street from Jefferson Hospital. But with my experiences at Mayo you can't go wrong there either. But I was also in the passive motion machine with both knees for my entire 3 day hospital stay post surgery, which I understand most doctors no longer use that machine. gailfaith

@challie I wonder if his first knee was a Conformis, sounds like some might refer to the Conformis that way. I am glad he is doing well with both knees. The hospitals in Manchester (I live in a "bedroom community" of Manchester (NH), do not do the Conformis. Apparently it is more costly. Their net payback is probably not as much if they use that one. You should find out from the doctor what knees your husband has since he is happy with them. Of course even if he was not happy with them you would want to find out since then you could avoid getting that one. I think I will ask my prior surgeon which mine is. I am just curious, if I find out the name I will want to see how others rate it. It might not be the knee, it might be the surgeon. When I went back to him after a number of months to see what could be done he just wrote another referral for PT.

Thanks for the info on ice machines. Some of the are way out of what I would pay, which did you get? I am not looking for it to last a lifetime, just for awhile after the TKR.

JK

@10nsmom Where are you located, and how far from there will go to find a doctor you have confidence in? When I went to this ortho a couple of years ago (and he cancelled my TKR with me on the table, IV in, due to my platelet count), at the initial appointment I spoke to a number of people that came quite a distance to go to him. We all have different limits I think. I remember one woman who came up from Florida (this was in Boston) and another who came from somewhere in the midwest.
JK

Hi there .... I've heard tremendous things about Rothman. A girlfriend of mine had both feet operated on (not at the same time) ... it required pins, bone removal and I'm not sure what else. Each recovery time took a year before she didn't have to use a scooter. But now .... she is doing great and she feels it's all because of Rothman Institute. Sounds like a winner to me!
abby