Neurological and sleep issues after gall bladder removal

let me see if i have this right. ALL of you who have had your gallbladders removed. BELIEVE that it is the reason for your Neurological and sleep issues. RIGHT?? interesting hypothesis. the reason i ask and say this is i too have had mine removed. because it went bad. causing Pancreatitis. which damaged part of my pancreas. I never had these issues because of the gallbladder.
i have sleep apnea. which was diagnosed before gallbladder removal. i have Crohns disease, which was diagnosed back in 2009. which causes diarrhea, or constipation. i too was anemic pretty much my whole life. i'm 65 now. which caused issues with vitamin B. which again was before gallbladder removal. without proper DX from your doctor. HOW can you assume that your problems are caused by the removal of your gallbladder?? are you saying it was a mistake to have the gallbladder removed?? i ask this. WHY did the doctors advise that you have it removed in the first place?? because it needed to be?? was it damaged and making you sick?? did YOU ever have any symptoms of these issues you complain about, before the gallbladder removal?? trust me. doctors do not decide on a whim to do this. also. doctors do not force you to do this either. the final decision is yours and YOURS alone.
I AM not blaming you nor the doctors. believe me. i've had my share of issues with doctors. BUT, i make the final decision after consulting with other doctors. as i always say here. GET A SECOND OPINION. and do your homework before surgery. unless it's an emergency to SAVE YOUR LIFE. and you really don't get to choose. d 🏳️‍🌈

Some of what you describe may be an anesthesia related issue. I had lung cancer surgery 10mos ago and I am not, and don’t think I am likely, to ever again be the same.

The docs are satisfied they “got it all” .. which was their mission.

I think what you're describing might be the post operative cognitive dysfunction POCD. The symptoms I experienced in the weeks following the surgery are described in POCD literature, but this is not the complete list, as it doesn't include tremor, balance and coordination issues, muscle weakness, and insomnia.

(i) Learning and memory: ability to learn and recall new information
(ii) Language: comprehension or expression
(iii) Perceptual motor: visual perception and coordination
(iv) Social cognition: insight and recognition of emotions
(v) Complex attention: sustained, divided or selective attention and speed of processing
(vi) Executive function: planning, decision-making and flexibility
(vii) Delirium: an acutely fluctuating disturbance in attention, awareness and cognition developed over a short period of time

Danny5:

It is the reason. I don't "believe" it. I know it. Why?

1. Again, I was perfectly healthy prior. I never had a single one of these issues. No health problems at all in fact. I went to the doctor once a year for a checkup and blood work. I always had a clean bill of health. I didn't feel bad in any way. I rarely even got a cold. I was very healthy. Again, I was a runner and very fit as well. I ate a healthy diet. I had no health problems.

2. Within weeks after getting my gallbladder out I started having issues. I was vomiting bile very quickly after. Within two weeks I was getting my first endoscope where they found gastritis...newly developed. Then the health problems began to fall like dominos: one after another.

3. You said all that about the doctors and getting a second opinion. Sure, that is great in hindsight, but let me tell you the story of what happened:

I'd never had a health problem before. Nothing other than the average cold. I remember exactly four of those in my life prior to this. I was 36 years old the morning I woke up to pee and right after had a sudden horrendous pain in my right side. I'd never felt that kind of pain before in my life. I went to the ER. This was July 2020 (the height of COVID) and they wouldn't let my family come in with me. So I was all alone and in the worst pain of my life. There, they ran tests all day until it was about 9pm at night. They didn't give me pain meds or anything to help, so it was hours of agony. Then, around that time, a PA comes in to tell me it is my gallbladder and they want to remove it. I get very worried and tell her I've never had a digestive problem in my life. So I'm confused. She says they see some sludge in my gallbladder. I ask her what happens if I just go home instead of getting it removed. She says that my gallbladder could burst. Now, the only comparable thing I'd heard of was an appendix bursting and I knew that could kill you. So, I agreed. Keep in mind I was at a pain of about 9/10 and had no family with me to help make the decision. I did ask what the side effects were. I even ask if it messed up the gut microbiome. My surgeon was called in specifically for my surgery. I ask him. He said 1% get loose stool after and the rest is fine. He said no problems with the gut microbiome. I ask if he was sure because I didn't really want my gallbladder removed. He said that it needed to come out.

So, not knowing much about medicine and thinking that doctors always tried to "do no harm" I agreed.

After the surgery I was at a 10/10 pain and the nurses said they had never seen that before. Well, two weeks later I was back in the ER for the same pain. That is when the doctor on staff finally told me the truth. She had looked at my CT from that first night and it turns out...I had a right kidney stone. They never told me that and I ask them if it could be anything else. THAT was causing my pain. After, I requested a copy of my gallbladder pathology report. It showed no infection, no swelling and no stones. My gallbladder was fine.

I cannot sue them because my state governor signed a law at the time saying that no doctor could be sued during COVID...even for non-COVID reasons. Am I to be blamed for trusting the doctors? Two of them? The ER doctor and the surgeon? Am I to be blamed because they didn't tell me about the kidney stone even thought I told them I didn't think it was my gallbladder? I even ask if there were other ways I could treat it or other ways to make 100% sure it was really my gallbladder. They said no, which was an outright lie as I found out later about the HIDA scan. So yes, I was naive and trusted doctors. I guess I learned my lesson, but it is a lesson I shouldn't have had to learn. What they did was wrong on every level. They lied to me more than once. Guess what...the negative outcomes isn't just 1% and they have all sorts of research showing it changes your gut microbiome. And I thought it was an emergency to SAVE MY LIFE (as you put it). The doctor told me my life was at risk. I had no idea it wasn't.

Anyway, yes...I am sure my gallbladder removal is responsible for this. It was like flipping a light switch on my health. One day I was perfectly fine and very healthy. I felt incredible. After, I feel like I'm 80 (I'm now 40 years old) and I struggle with chronic health problems every day.

I passed that kidney stone about four weeks later btw. I apparently wasn't drinking enough water. Like I said...I was a runner and it was July when this happened, so that is how I got that kidney stone.

Not all people have the opportunity to do all the things you said, unfortunately. I didn't.

Danny, I'm not sure what are you trying to accomplish with your post but I don't see anything helpful there. Are you saying that those of us who have had this experience don't know our bodies, or what we're talking about? I can assure you that my health was excellent prior to the surgery, and that the surgery was unquestionably the turning point. However, what's done is done and what I'm looking for are others who are dealing with similar consequences and have some practical advice derived from their experience to offer. You don't seem to fall in that category so you may want to keep to yourself.

FYI your profile states you are currently dealing with a disc at L5-L6. There is no L6. The lumbar spine transitions to the sacral spine - so that disc is L5-S1.

I would just add that in response to your post regarding gallbladder removal and consequences of that, your experience is yours. But it need not be presumed to be universal. Docs are no better nor worse than the rest of us. Some are empathetic. Some are jerks. Some are brilliant, some not so much. Some are collaborators, some are arrogant about their ability and see no need to collaborate.
I try to give people who had the actual experience the benefit of the doubt about that experience.
It’s their reality - I honor that.

@pb50. my question to you is what's my profile got to do with my post on gallbladder removal? HUH?? not a damn thing. so i made a simple mistake on L-5 and said also L-6. which i've learned since then. that it don't exist. by educating myself. heaven forbid. me a man who made a mistake. i also stated that i don't blame the patient nor the doctor. NOBODY is perfect. NOBODY. least of ALL ME. more than i can say about some people here. I did not attack anyone. so please remember that the next time you make a reply to someone else. before checking yourself and getting ALL the facts. now if you will excuse me. i'm done. i can't deal with people who think they ARE perfect and make NO MISTAKES.

Hello,

I had the EXACT same thing happen to me. I was fine before my gallbladder was removed on July 4, 2020. No health issues, vitamin issues or anything. Afterward, I ended up having a lot of problems.

Digestion: Loose stool, floating stool and all that. I also felt horrible. For a while I was throwing up straight bile.

Sleep: One of the first things I noticed was how off my sleep was. Prior to removal, I slept really well....deep and long. Now, it feels like my sleep quality is horrible. It is light and I seem to wake up a lot. I don't sleep for long and I don't feel rested the next day. I also struggle with insomnia in general now.

Anxiety: It feels like I'm restless. Like I can't do any of my old hobbies (like reading) because I just feel I don't have the attention span/can't relax. And that isn't coming from "me"...it's like my body is doing it on its own. I had no issues relaxing before.

Cognitive/Neurological: I was a writer before. Now, my imagination is gone. That has been horrible for me. My brain feels like it processes things slower. Like I'm not as intelligent. For a long time after surgery, I experienced brain fog too. That has eased a tiny bit. Also, in the last few years, I suddenly developed tremors. A neurologist confirmed these tremors and said he has no idea what is causing them. I had very steady hands before surgery.

Vitamin Deficiencies: I was found to be deficient in B12, B1, and also vitamin D. Exactly like you. I have started to address that and it has helped, but not cured my problems.

Some of my blood tests have shown some issues since, but nothing the doctors seem to want to address.

Endurance/fitness: I was a runner before. I ran five miles every day. I worked out and was in shape. Now, I have zero endurance. I tried to run after. I really tried. However, my body just won't do it anymore. I still stay in shape by pushing myself to walk and lift some weights, but it is much harder and I don't have the cardio endurance like I used to. It no longer feels easy. I have to fight it all the time.

Health Problems Diagnosed with since: Fatty liver, thyroid nodule, tremors, mild heart valve problems, vitamin deficiencies, and Sjogren's autoimmune disease. Had NONE of this before. And why do I have a fatty liver? I am not eating a ton of bad food and I am not sedentary. So why?

Basically, getting my gallbladder removed ruined my health entirely. Before, I felt like I was still in my 20's even though I was 36 years old. Now, I feel so much older than my age. I struggle every single day with these new chronic conditions and I curse the day I decided to listen to the doctors and have mine removed. And now...no doctors want to help. They just shrug and want to treat some of the symptoms with various medications. No one wants to investigate and no one wants to try to figure it out.

Personally, my theory is several things. I think like you said that serotonin is off. I used to be very happy in general. Now, I'm not. It even changed my personality. I don't really want to do the same things I used to. And this isn't just me being upset about what happened. I mean...I don't even feel like myself. We know most serotonin is made in the gut. I think the bile there alters the gut microbiome as well as harming the gut lining changing serotonin production/how it is used.

I also know for a fact I frequently have gastritis. This can cause B vitamin absorption issues....particularly B12. So I think I constantly have that going on now. Before I had an iron stomach...no problems at all.

So, I think our gut is the key to our health and that messing it up this badly really messes with our health. Have you had any success with figuring out how to handle this? Any updates on your health? Have you found any doctors that actually care to take an interest?

"Have you had any success with figuring out how to handle this? Any updates on your health? Have you found any doctors that actually care to take an interest?"

Along with the other issues, my athletic ability also rapidly declined. I was in the best shape of my life heading into this. Three days after my surgery, I walked five miles. Six months later, I was unable to stand without staggering. I couldn't run because my knees felt weak and would buckle while walking. I also lost sensation in my muscles and did not get that calm, satisfied feeling after exercise. I too wondered if this was how old age felt. This has improved with training, but two years postop, I am still not as strong or coordinated as before.

I suspect that the surgical procedure, or changes to digestion and nutritional deficiencies , or all of the above, had some sort of effect on the central nervous system. There is still so much that's unknown about how the brain works, or even the mechanism of how the anesthesia and a few other drugs I received prior to and during surgery work. So figuring out if this was the cause may be fruitless.

My cognitive issues have improved the most, but I continue to lose my train of thought. Finding words on the fly, as well as motivation and focus, are still challenges. I attribute those to persistent insomnia, and I'm hoping that if that improves, the remaining cognitive issues will as well.

After being gaslighted on several occasions, I believe I have found a physician who is as perplexed as I am and is working with me. I've had numerous blood and hormone tests, and almost everything appears to be fine. My brain MRI revealed nothing that could explain these issues. The Indican test was abnormal, which prompted me to suspect that tryptophan metabolism is broken. That might explain insomnia as a functioning tryptophan > serotonin pathway is a precursor for proper sleep.

I should mention that in the time period prior to and after the surgery, I was experiencing chronic stress due to some personal issues with my family. Stress makes everything worse, but I was able to manage it prior to and immediately after the surgery. Only after the cognitive symptoms began in earnest was I unable to handle any stress at all. Also, I can't tolerate caffeine afterward because even half a cup makes me extremely jittery, sweat profusely, and unable to sleep at all. I owned a coffee shop before and had a pretty high caffeine tolerance.

Also, the contrast MRI I did prior to surgery discovered some lesions on my pelvic bone that they wanted to further investigate, so I underwent a full body PET scan and another contrast MRI about a month post op. The lesions were benign. My cognitive symptoms started after these two tests, but I don't necessarily believe they are the cause, although I can't rule them out either.

Were you experiencing chronic stress at the time, and what specific scans did they perform on you?