Treatment options that have worked for Small Fiber Neuropathy

Posted by moakes @moakes, Feb 27 9:32pm

I am a new member to the Neuropathy group and looking to find information about what has worked for others to reduce their neuropathy pain and improve their condition. My pain started a few years ago in my forearms and spread to the rest of my body in September of '23. I was diagnosed with SFN in October. I've had some pain relief from Lyrica + Cymbalta, but pain in my feet is getting worse making it painful to walk. Been trying acupuncture, dry needling, and PEMF as alternative treatment but no noticeable improvements to date.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Neuropathy Support Group.

One of the more promising approaches to treating PN involves muscarinic receptor antagonists, two of which are in the pipeline (and one might come to market in the next year or two). Just published:

A muscarinic receptor antagonist reverses multiple indices of diabetic peripheral neuropathy: preclinical and clinical studies using oxybutynin
Original Paper
Published: 25 March 2024

In more advanced clinical trial is the related drug, also applied topically, pirenzepine,

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@garito

I think the previous article about which you complained was pretty much on point. (BTW, I retired as editor of a clinical surgery journal, so I do know something about medical research. I also have suffered since 1991 with PN, and have since been diagnosed with at least 4 other forms of neuropathy, including idiopathic multifocal polyneuropathy.) While neurologists learn about PN in their first year, they are frustrated because it has no cures or even treatments other than symptomatic treatment (which is not very effective in all or even most cases. So they go on to concentrate on epilepsy and many other neuropathies that are more well-studied and "interesting." and that have proven treatments or even cures. Finding a neurologist who really knows and cares about PN is very difficult. After more than a decade, I recently found one!

I have quite a few chronic (and sometimes also incurable) comorbidities, and my new neurologist has confirmed that my PN can be associated with, exacerbative, or even causative of several of them--not including the rare, incurable, indolent lymphoma which may ultimately do me in and which was probably the originator of my 34-year journey with PNs.

Look, look, look online and elsewhere for neurologists who include PN in their specialties or concentrations, and pray that at least one of them works within a reasonable drive-time of where you live.

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Before I begin, full disclosure. I am a retired physician (Board Certified Emergency Medicine) and a patient (idiopathic small fiber PN; coincidently, I even suffer from lymphoma, much like the poster above. However, none of my many doctors link it to the PN). As a patient, I have been subject to many of the same frustrations expressed here (difficult disease, unsatisfactory treatment, etc.). I have "fired" one of my neurologists because of a clash of personalities, not his lack of knowledge. I have also experienced the issue noted above about neurologists being frustrated with PN, and thus gravitating towards patients with diseases they can treat more successfully. For that reason, it would be optimal to find a neurologist who specializes in neuromuscular diseases. That can be hard to do in the medical system we have in this country. A general neurologist would be second best.

This forum shouldn't become a debate between individuals trying to prove their point. Therefore, I will not debate the 2 posters who disagree with me point by point, except to say that the linked article by Suzy Cohen is filled with so much misinformation and unscientific opinions that it would take a short essay to refute it. This is not surprising, nor unusual. Suzy Cohen is a pharmacist by training, not a physician. By her own admission, she "specializes" in thyroid problems, not neurology or PN, although how she specializes in any particular medical field as a pharmacist is unclear to me.

Moreover, she is also an author of "medical" books which are sold to the general public for a profit. She also sells her own line of unproven supplements to the public, again at a profit. She is a media personality. All of this is listed by the Foundational For Peripheral Neuropathy as warning signs to patients to be careful about when choosing to accept advice or purchase supplements or devices.

For the non medical reader interested in learning about the science of PN, it's diagnosis, treatment, alternative treatments, etc., I recommend the short book "Peripheral Neuropathy: What It Is and What You Can Do To Feel Better" By Janice F. Wiesman, MD. The book was published in 2016, so it is not completely up to date, but it is still very relevant and accurate. Dr. Wiesman was a board certified neurologist and specialist in neuromuscular diseases, which includes PN. Unfortunately she passed away in 2020.

If I were a practicing neurologist, I would give this book away free to all my PN patients.

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@jeffrapp

Before I begin, full disclosure. I am a retired physician (Board Certified Emergency Medicine) and a patient (idiopathic small fiber PN; coincidently, I even suffer from lymphoma, much like the poster above. However, none of my many doctors link it to the PN). As a patient, I have been subject to many of the same frustrations expressed here (difficult disease, unsatisfactory treatment, etc.). I have "fired" one of my neurologists because of a clash of personalities, not his lack of knowledge. I have also experienced the issue noted above about neurologists being frustrated with PN, and thus gravitating towards patients with diseases they can treat more successfully. For that reason, it would be optimal to find a neurologist who specializes in neuromuscular diseases. That can be hard to do in the medical system we have in this country. A general neurologist would be second best.

This forum shouldn't become a debate between individuals trying to prove their point. Therefore, I will not debate the 2 posters who disagree with me point by point, except to say that the linked article by Suzy Cohen is filled with so much misinformation and unscientific opinions that it would take a short essay to refute it. This is not surprising, nor unusual. Suzy Cohen is a pharmacist by training, not a physician. By her own admission, she "specializes" in thyroid problems, not neurology or PN, although how she specializes in any particular medical field as a pharmacist is unclear to me.

Moreover, she is also an author of "medical" books which are sold to the general public for a profit. She also sells her own line of unproven supplements to the public, again at a profit. She is a media personality. All of this is listed by the Foundational For Peripheral Neuropathy as warning signs to patients to be careful about when choosing to accept advice or purchase supplements or devices.

For the non medical reader interested in learning about the science of PN, it's diagnosis, treatment, alternative treatments, etc., I recommend the short book "Peripheral Neuropathy: What It Is and What You Can Do To Feel Better" By Janice F. Wiesman, MD. The book was published in 2016, so it is not completely up to date, but it is still very relevant and accurate. Dr. Wiesman was a board certified neurologist and specialist in neuromuscular diseases, which includes PN. Unfortunately she passed away in 2020.

If I were a practicing neurologist, I would give this book away free to all my PN patients.

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What Garito says in this context is absolutely correct:

While neurologists learn about PN in their first year, they are frustrated because it has no cures or even treatments other than symptomatic treatment (which is not very effective in all or even most cases. So they go on to concentrate on epilepsy and many other neuropathies that are more well-studied and "interesting." and that have proven treatments or even cures. Finding a neurologist who really knows and cares about PN is very difficult.

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@johnbishop

Hello @moakes and @martame, Welcome to Connect. I'm sorry to hear that you have joined the neuropathy club. I shared my neuropathy journey story in another discussion here - https://connect.mayoclinic.org/comment/310341/. Unfortunately there really isn't a cure for neuropathy but there are many treatments that may or may not help with the different symptoms. The best thing we can do as patients is to learn as much as we can about our condition and what treatments are available that might provide some relief.

To learn more about neuropathy, here are my two favorites:
--- Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy: https://www.foundationforpn.org/
--- Neuropathy Commons: https://neuropathycommons.org/

There are also many different discussions here on Connect where you can learn what other members have found helps them. Here is a link that shows the different discussions and comments for "small fiber neuropathy what helps" -- https://connect.mayoclinic.org/search/discussions/?search=small+fiber+neuropathy+what+helps.

It sounds like you have tried a few of the alternative treatments as well as the medications used for neuropathy pain but the symptoms seem to be getting worse. The Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy has a fairly comprehensive list of the complementary and alternative treatments for neuropathy here - https://www.foundationforpn.org/treatments/.

Were your doctor or neurologist able to identify any possible causes of the SFN?

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l have had symptoms in my legs and feet for about 4years, cramping and pain etc. referral to a neurologist "can,t help you, what do you want for pain" l am a retired RN and dont beleive medications are the best help. movement therapy , some herbal remedies are often more effective and beneficial. I am often exhausted with trying to live a normal single life with this affliction...so am looking for support in dealing with this elusive disability. No, the neuroligist offered no cause.....He appeared uninterested! any how I will troll thru all the suggestions on this site thanks Susan

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@proteusx

What Garito says in this context is absolutely correct:

While neurologists learn about PN in their first year, they are frustrated because it has no cures or even treatments other than symptomatic treatment (which is not very effective in all or even most cases. So they go on to concentrate on epilepsy and many other neuropathies that are more well-studied and "interesting." and that have proven treatments or even cures. Finding a neurologist who really knows and cares about PN is very difficult.

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YES!!!!

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@susanmarian

l have had symptoms in my legs and feet for about 4years, cramping and pain etc. referral to a neurologist "can,t help you, what do you want for pain" l am a retired RN and dont beleive medications are the best help. movement therapy , some herbal remedies are often more effective and beneficial. I am often exhausted with trying to live a normal single life with this affliction...so am looking for support in dealing with this elusive disability. No, the neuroligist offered no cause.....He appeared uninterested! any how I will troll thru all the suggestions on this site thanks Susan

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Welcome @susanmarian, You are on the right track learning as much as you can about the condition and what can help provide some relief. One of the better sites for learning that I have found is the Foundation for Peripheral Neuropathy. Lots of great information including:
-- Living Well with PN: https://www.foundationforpn.org/living-well/
-- Complementary and Alternative Treatments: https://www.foundationforpn.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Complementary-and-Alternative-Treatments-Revised-2020-final.-1.pdf
-- Past Webinars: https://www.foundationforpn.org/past-webinars/

Another thing you might find helpful to connect with others with similar symptoms is to open the search link at the top of any Connect page and do a search. Have you tried the search function on Connect?

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@susanmarian

l have had symptoms in my legs and feet for about 4years, cramping and pain etc. referral to a neurologist "can,t help you, what do you want for pain" l am a retired RN and dont beleive medications are the best help. movement therapy , some herbal remedies are often more effective and beneficial. I am often exhausted with trying to live a normal single life with this affliction...so am looking for support in dealing with this elusive disability. No, the neuroligist offered no cause.....He appeared uninterested! any how I will troll thru all the suggestions on this site thanks Susan

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My new neurologist--who takes PN very seriously and who, early in her career, even wrote published papers on the subject--often prescribes gabapentin, pregabelin, duloxetine, or amitriptyline (low doses, sometimes a combination of two). As for supplements and canabinoids, she doesn't think anything taken by mouth helps very much. Because topical lidocaine hasn't much helped me, she suggests that I rely instead on high-concentration CBD topicals. She said I can continue taking the often-recommended alpha-lipoic acid if I want, but that she has never had a patient who benefitted much from it.

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@jeffrapp

Before I begin, full disclosure. I am a retired physician (Board Certified Emergency Medicine) and a patient (idiopathic small fiber PN; coincidently, I even suffer from lymphoma, much like the poster above. However, none of my many doctors link it to the PN). As a patient, I have been subject to many of the same frustrations expressed here (difficult disease, unsatisfactory treatment, etc.). I have "fired" one of my neurologists because of a clash of personalities, not his lack of knowledge. I have also experienced the issue noted above about neurologists being frustrated with PN, and thus gravitating towards patients with diseases they can treat more successfully. For that reason, it would be optimal to find a neurologist who specializes in neuromuscular diseases. That can be hard to do in the medical system we have in this country. A general neurologist would be second best.

This forum shouldn't become a debate between individuals trying to prove their point. Therefore, I will not debate the 2 posters who disagree with me point by point, except to say that the linked article by Suzy Cohen is filled with so much misinformation and unscientific opinions that it would take a short essay to refute it. This is not surprising, nor unusual. Suzy Cohen is a pharmacist by training, not a physician. By her own admission, she "specializes" in thyroid problems, not neurology or PN, although how she specializes in any particular medical field as a pharmacist is unclear to me.

Moreover, she is also an author of "medical" books which are sold to the general public for a profit. She also sells her own line of unproven supplements to the public, again at a profit. She is a media personality. All of this is listed by the Foundational For Peripheral Neuropathy as warning signs to patients to be careful about when choosing to accept advice or purchase supplements or devices.

For the non medical reader interested in learning about the science of PN, it's diagnosis, treatment, alternative treatments, etc., I recommend the short book "Peripheral Neuropathy: What It Is and What You Can Do To Feel Better" By Janice F. Wiesman, MD. The book was published in 2016, so it is not completely up to date, but it is still very relevant and accurate. Dr. Wiesman was a board certified neurologist and specialist in neuromuscular diseases, which includes PN. Unfortunately she passed away in 2020.

If I were a practicing neurologist, I would give this book away free to all my PN patients.

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Good post, Dr. Rapp! There is an awful lot of medical nonsense available online--and even in print.

Dr. Norman Latov (Director of the Peripheral Neuropathy Center at Weill-Cornell School of Medicine in NYC) has written two other good books on PN, as has Mims Cushing. (All--and others, some not so medically authoritative--are affordably available at thriftbooks.com.)

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@jeffrapp

Before I begin, full disclosure. I am a retired physician (Board Certified Emergency Medicine) and a patient (idiopathic small fiber PN; coincidently, I even suffer from lymphoma, much like the poster above. However, none of my many doctors link it to the PN). As a patient, I have been subject to many of the same frustrations expressed here (difficult disease, unsatisfactory treatment, etc.). I have "fired" one of my neurologists because of a clash of personalities, not his lack of knowledge. I have also experienced the issue noted above about neurologists being frustrated with PN, and thus gravitating towards patients with diseases they can treat more successfully. For that reason, it would be optimal to find a neurologist who specializes in neuromuscular diseases. That can be hard to do in the medical system we have in this country. A general neurologist would be second best.

This forum shouldn't become a debate between individuals trying to prove their point. Therefore, I will not debate the 2 posters who disagree with me point by point, except to say that the linked article by Suzy Cohen is filled with so much misinformation and unscientific opinions that it would take a short essay to refute it. This is not surprising, nor unusual. Suzy Cohen is a pharmacist by training, not a physician. By her own admission, she "specializes" in thyroid problems, not neurology or PN, although how she specializes in any particular medical field as a pharmacist is unclear to me.

Moreover, she is also an author of "medical" books which are sold to the general public for a profit. She also sells her own line of unproven supplements to the public, again at a profit. She is a media personality. All of this is listed by the Foundational For Peripheral Neuropathy as warning signs to patients to be careful about when choosing to accept advice or purchase supplements or devices.

For the non medical reader interested in learning about the science of PN, it's diagnosis, treatment, alternative treatments, etc., I recommend the short book "Peripheral Neuropathy: What It Is and What You Can Do To Feel Better" By Janice F. Wiesman, MD. The book was published in 2016, so it is not completely up to date, but it is still very relevant and accurate. Dr. Wiesman was a board certified neurologist and specialist in neuromuscular diseases, which includes PN. Unfortunately she passed away in 2020.

If I were a practicing neurologist, I would give this book away free to all my PN patients.

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I’m so glad you posted this. I am a retired RN, and I read the Suzy Cohen article. I was surprised that I had never heard of her (first red flag). Reading with an open mind, I appreciated the diagrams and simple explanations. But when I got to the paragraphs about small fiber nerves regenerating, I did a double take. She was so cheerful and certain! Well, of course this is true - when I cut my finger, or have surgery, the nerves are injured, and thankfully, they do regenerate. But to imply that my painful, debilitating, life-changing idiopathic length-dependent small fiber polyneuropathy can be cured - just like that - is an example of “blaming the victim “. As in, if I just did the right thing, according to Ms Cohen, I would be back to normal. This, in spite of loads of research studies and clinical examples of the exact opposite. That in fact, my length-dependent SFN is progressing, as expected, and just recently confirmed by one of my neurologists who is at UAB, an excellent medical research institution.
My favorite form of “blaming the victim” is the diet and nutrition shamers. Really? Too many Little Debbie cakes, and a week with more carbs than vegetables damaged all my nerves? At some point during the past eight years of pain, when my diagnosis was just fibromyalgia, my chiropractor referred me to a colleague who ran a nutrition-based clinic outside Atlanta, the Goldberg Clinic. I won’t go into the whole humiliating and horrible experience, but I paid thousands of dollars, endured ridicule and shaming, and starvation to the point that I was near fainting for weeks. This just shows that desperate people will take desperate measures.
Whew. What a rant. But don’t let anyone tell you that you can heal yourself of advanced peripheral neuropathy.

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