Have you had any failures since starting this process? If you have would appreciate a PM.
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Sun, Feb 16 8:55am · Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse? in Mental Health
Have you had any failures since starting this process? If you have would appreciate a PM.
Sat, Feb 15 10:38am · Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse? in Mental Health
See my previous more detailed posts but I would definitely take more than one test from different labs moving forward. Guessing you failed the fingerpick test from USDTL (test lab not necessarily who you took it with)? If so I would go somewhere that does the labcorp version (request a test being one). I would take both every time I was ask to test going forward.
Wed, Feb 5 10:05pm · Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse? in Mental Health
I will tell you from watching my wife fail the finger prick tests I got real interested in exactly how it was collected. The USDTL test procedure sheet is very specific they are to prick finger and let the blood drop on the card. Not squeeze/milkIng and not touch the card.
We started making them do that and tests started passing. We also made them open a fresh kit in front of us. As you say no real proof but interesting you are seeing similar things.
There are some papers that talk about how milking screws up other tests. Not specific to the PeTH. The paper is published out of Rice university in Houston. I sent toolsd the paper. Don’t have it handy tonight.
Wed, Jan 15 10:35am · Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse? in Mental Health
Multiple contacts with toolsd and others this week prompted me to want to post this as a public service…
Hopefully if you are visiting this board it is because you are being ask to take a PeTH test and not because you have already failed one. Either way you should understand these tests have the potential to ruin your life, career, or both so you should not be treating these lightly. If you just found out you failed a PeTH test (and are not doing the two-test method I am advocating), run in and take another on your own if your results are reasonably high (nominally 40+) and your time period is close to the original test (nominally less than 7-10 days). You may then be able to argue half-life decay of PeTH but the two test method is far better in my opinion.
PeTH tests are very sensitive to drinking and in my opinion to other things causing false positives that we cannot fully explain (yet). If you are ask/ordered to take a PeTH I would avoid doing so if possible. If you believe the hype – PeTH is produced as a byproduct of drinking (only) and has a predictable half-life decay that can be measured to tell how much you have been drinking. There are however a few papers that attempt to dispute both of these. My advice below is not reflecting these arguments but rather the inconsistent tests results several people I have personally talked to have seen with the USDTL tests. I will assume most of the people that may be reading this cannot simply avoid PeTH testing (which is probably something you are being forced to take).
Therefore, I strongly encourage you to take two PeTH tests, same day, different test facilities and/or methods. Yes this is pretty expensive ($200-$300) and a big pain in the rear but the day one of these tests come back against you – you will be so glad you did (at least then you have the best chance to dispute the results). If you do not do this the best you can hope for is to argue the decay rates of PeTH (which is not 100% consistent amongst people) using a later test but nothing speaks to a bad test as loudly as conflicting results from the same day.
With this as background, most people getting ordered to do PeTH tests are doing finger prick tests (as these are the cheapest and easiest to collect) and are processed on the backend by USDTL who makes the test. If this is your case, I would be particularly concerned as I have personally talked to several people getting highly questionable results from USDTL tests – in several cases backed by conflicting results from either USDTL tests at other test facilities or other tests (PeTHs not using USDTL or others). A few of us have some theories as to if this is an issue with the test or the collection methods – but bottom line is there are inconsistencies that are occurring at least with the USDTL tests. And make sure whoever is doing a USDTL test is opening a fresh test kit in front of you…
If you are facing a USDTL finger prick test, then spend some time to call other testing facilities in your area and try to find one that also administers the PeTH – even USDTL. I would suggest a better option is to find someone like Quest, Request-a-Test, or others that do their backend processing through LabCorp. This is a blood-drawn test collected in vials vs finger-prick cards. I believe but do not have the evidence to backup yet this test may be less sensitive to at least some of the false-positive producing factors with the USDTL test or to collection problems. This said, there is at least one person on this board that had fails and passes same day at USDTL just using different test facilities which may point to the test facility. I can only tell you I have not seen a fail at LabCorp being refuted by USDTL but have seen USDTL refuted by LabCorp and themselves. Therefore I would be going to a second test backed by LabCorp if ordered to do USDTL and I very well might do the opposite if ordered to do LabCorp tests.
I fully recognize not everyone can afford the time and money to do the second test. But I want to to reiterate my statement that these tests have the potential to ruin your life, career, or both so you should not be treating these lightly. Do what you can to protect yourself from false positives. Good luck to all those being forced into these tests. Until we can get them killed we tread in dangerous days of “witchcraft” being used to judge you in a system that is setup to defend such methodology for its own benefits.
I would humbly ask if you have any data clearly showing bad / conflicting PeTHs results refuted by any other tests you shoot me a PM. I am trying to collect such data to look for patterns and help others in their fights. Even if you just got a fail and legitimately were not drinking – I would be interested in the type of test it was and any thoughts you might have to the false positive cause if any.
Tue, Jan 7 9:05pm · Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse? in Mental Health
I can tell you 100% from my wife’s experiences with the USDTL Peth tests, there are false positives.
We mostly had hers at one specific test center in Dallas. I blame them. If you lab does not open you clean kit in front of you refuse to take the tests there if you can.
If you keep having problems and are willing to spend the money we saw no such issues with the blood drawn tests from LabCorp. My wife had conflicting results from these tests taken minutes apart from failed USDTL tests. I personally think all the peth tests are crap. But maybe the blood drawn one is less crap.
For what it is worth one of the other guys on this forum had very similar results but took the USDTL at different collection facilities. But he was also failing at the same test facility in Dallas.
Feb 23, 2019 · Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse? in Mental Health
I 100% agree it is all about the money. They get a test that mostly works – except when it gets a false positive. Then they don’t worry about the poor people that get the false positives.
And the people in the business that monitor compliance. Well… why would they care if you are getting false positives either. That just means they get paid more too. It you that is just SOL not them…
Never mind it ruins people’s lives. I truly hope it ends up bitting some of them in the rear… or someone they love with the same results.
I do have a question though. You say you had to do “finger stick”. I assume this is with some place doing the backend testing with USDTL? Our experience with LabCorp was they only did the blood-drawn PETH using what was the MedTox backend tests (now owned by LabCorp).
For the USDTL ones, I strongly believe you can mess that test up in collection based on the experiences of my wife and Fairlane.
A couple hints that “may” help but I cannot say will fix the problems. Just things we made them change over time but did not have enough good tests with the USDTL test to feel good about these being responsible for the changes. I still just think the test is just flawed.
1) Make them use a factory fresh test kit that has not been setting around too long. Have them open it in front of you. You would think this would be obvious… but not all collection facilities do this…
2) Do not let them use the alcohol wipe. The USDTL instructions tell them not to use an ethanol based wipe. The ones they were using were not but we made them stop using them totally.
3) Do not let them squeeze or milk the finger. The USDTL instructions tell them not to… because it stops the bleeding. I found some research papers showing how this can negatively effect other finger prick tests. Can’t say that is the case here but it is something we changed.
4) do not let them wipe your finger on the card. Make the blood drop and fall. They will complain about this unless you are a bleeder. But again it is in the USDTL instructions but more subtly than I stated here.
5) make the seal the kit in front of you after testing.
Feb 20, 2019 · Other causes of failed PEth test for alcohol abuse? in Mental Health
And as alluded to in my other comments – the issues my family member had problems also ONLY at Forensic DNA & Testing in Dallas. I also do not believe it is based on wipe but we made them stop using it with the fingerprick tests. I am more concerned about the integrity of The FDNA testing protocol if not the collection facility as a whole… especially after finding Fairlane on here experiencing similar issues at the same place.
With regards to the grey top tube vs the tan top tubes (for the blood drawn tests)… I did some research into that as well. I do not remember all the specifics without going back through my notes but one of them is supposed to prevent the formation of alcohol in the tube itself after it is collected and waiting for testing. Some of the papers discuss this as a possible issue with PETH false positives for the blood drawn test. In our experience we received no false positives with the blood-drawn tests and were taking them same day as a failed fingerprick test. Our only failures were with the USDTL-based tests using the cards and drops used at FDNA despite passing blood-tests same day. We never had issues with the blood drawn tests at Request-a-Test using LabCorp as the backend. I do not believe Fairlane ever did the blood-draw method you are talking about – but he was getting in-consistent results with the USDTL tests given at a different facility same day.
My personal belief is the PETH as a whole – has false positives. If you can afford it and the results of the tests matter to you (which I am betting is the case for almost anyone taking this tests as they are being forced to for some reason) – I strongly recommend you take the test at two facilities the same day. Towards the end of our nightmare with these results we were doing 3 tests – one blood drawn, one at FDNA, and one at another lab using USDTL.
If you do the multiple tests (anywhere) and get in-consistent results please contact me and let me know your experiences. If you are having problems with the PETH tests at Forensic DNA in Dallas I would also been keenly interested in talking.