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Sun, Apr 26 11:51pm · Sciatica in Chronic Pain

@australia I am aware of some of the work of people like Guarante, Sinclair, etc. Be aware that they are financial stakeholders in their company (Glaxo SmithKline bought some of it but scrapped some products due to possible side effects, so I read – but I'll want to look more into that). I'm not taking things to "live longer", although living healthier is a goal (and proper healing / tissue remodeling; a not so well understood process that might be causing a lot of people's pain). I also wanted some pain relief (quercetin is one that provides this to some degree – but you have to avoid too high a dose as it can be toxic). Also, some (a variety) of the flavinoids may act together in ways that aren't fully understood to promote healing (they may help vitamin C utilization (?) but maybe they're also simply needed more as we age), lower blood pressure, etc.. I definitely think the diosmin / hesperidin I mentioned helped decrease my leg swelling. I perfer my mix for now and I'm systematically adding and subtracting to get to the lowest dose that works. I'll think about adding the NMN (I already take resveratrol and some vitamin D; also be aware that quercetin and resveratrol work synergistically (have a greater than additive effect together). I miraculously saw my triglycerides go down for the first time ever after starting to take this mix. I already mentioned my pain is much lower (sciatica and other neuropathic pain). So, as you can tell, I'm somewhat skeptical of the "couple things" are going to do the trick. Thanks for the info.

Sun, Apr 26 8:30pm · Central Sensitization - please share your stories in Chronic Pain

@rwinney and others. Also, be aware that in his "Life after pain" book, Dr. Jonathan Kuttner has a "Phoenix program" and a "master your pain system" program that uses mind -body teachings, etc. to talk about getting out of pain / retraining your pain system. It is beyond the book and I believe somewhat expensive – but you'll need to check their pricing if interested at: https://lifeafterpain.com/info/products/ if things don't work out with your other pain clinic and pursuits.

Someone mentioned there are biochemical changes in the brain and nervous system that potentiate the pain. That is correct and known. It is not "all in your head" There are numerous scholarly articles about this is you search "scholarly articles and pain sensitization". Lot's of biochemical and medical terminology but basically the nervous systems gets excited (here is one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2750819/). You will presumably need to partly retrain the pain system (Dr. Kuttner talks about this malfunction a lot and does have those programs above, that may help retrain the pain system) and he also has various videos (and stories of success and peoples struggles) out on the web about pain (and relief). Good luck.

Sun, Apr 26 8:04pm · Sciatica in Chronic Pain

@JustinMcClanahan and others. You had asked what keeps my sciatica down. I have significantly reduced my sciatica pain by doing especially 2 things: 1. all manner of stretching and exercises 2. all manner of dietary supplements (and adding more veggies to my diet). I have posted all over here before, including the pain in the butt thread, pudendal neuropathy thread and the central sensitization. For the stretching and exercises I use a Pilates Machine and a TRX suspension system and ground stretching, too. I basically do what is in this book available on Amazon and then some: "Sciatica : 20 Easy & Effective Stretching Exercises To Relieve Sciatica And Become Pain Free: FREE VIDEOS Of Every Stretch And Exercise You will Need To Become Pain Free Kindle Edition". Some of the video links don't work – but this is a $2.99 book and shows all the major stretches that help for Sciatica. You will probably need to do these to get rid of it.

2. For the supplements, for me, these cut my nerve pain allowed me to heal. Most are plant goodies. I use: various supplements such as Flavinoids and flavolignins can really help you heal. Some of the supplements include ginger extract to calm digestion and Milk thistle extract (source of flavinlignins) is one of many you can take (silymarin, the active ingredient in milk thistle extract, is a bunch of flavolignins, I believe; I also take diosmin / hesperidin (vein health) and some quercetin (stay below 500 mg or so daily; I discontinued quercetin as of now, though since the ORAC greens may have some); these are all flavinoids, I believe / resveratrol; ORAC energy greens (full of plant stuff and – you guessed it flavinoids), a low dose rutin (vein health) and extra vitamin C (staying below 2000 mg daily) and a tblsp of hemp seed oil, and turmeric. These work together to relieve pain, promote proper health.

The regimen I use along with stretching and exercise reversed or is cutting down on my sitting pain / neuropathic pain in the legs and glutes (i.e. less "sciatica") and reduced fibrosis in the muscles/veins, etc. My legs don't swell as much, either, largely due to the diosmin.

I had one other peculiarity to my situation: I am convinced I was having too much fibrosis of tissues – perhaps depostions of something (fibrin – the blood clotting protein?) in veins, possibly on the tissues. I also supplemented with enzymes nattokinase / serrapeptidase and lumbrokinase, too, taken between meals to help with possible fibrin (or other amyloid type deposits) in veins / tissues. These are counter-indicated if you have clotting disorders, are already on anti-coagulants, or about 10% of people simply don't tolerate these in the gut. These have never bothered me and helped tremendously. Tissues became smoother feeling (not so ropey) and less pain. By the way, I'm off nortriptyline for nerve pain for some time after I changed my diet. The exercises, dietary changes, etc., seemed to need to be done all together to get the needed results. It took a while, but these things really helped.

I would also highly recommend a book by Dr. Greg Fors called "Why we hurt and how we heal", 2nd Edition. I got two supplement ideas from his book (silymarin and ginger). He also describes gut health, other myofascial release techniques, etc. Good luck.

Sun, Apr 19 12:47am · Central Sensitization - please share your stories in Chronic Pain

@rwinney The issue we all have is this – what is causing the pain? What is the nature of your pain and where is it at? I believe I partly understand the source of my pain. At one point, I got reactive pain from sitting or rolling on balls or rollers with trigger point release. I don't do much trigger point release anymore – but I also don't need to as most of the trigger points are gone (at one point I literally had chains of trigger points and tension from the psoas and diaphragm all the way down the legs). I often use a percussion massager on my glutes almost every day now. At one point, I had sciatica if I did that. So something has changed for the better because that doesn't bother me now and in fact, it helps – as long as massage is brief. I believe my pain was at least in part from fibrosis (specifically, from fibrin deposition). I also took some unusual supplments: the enzymes nattokinase, lumbrokinase and serrapeptidase which I think help remodel myofascial tissue. If you are experiencing pain, I wouldn't recommend that massage treatment at this time. Maybe later, things will change (they sure did for me and it may be the particular combination of supplements I've worked out is magic for me). For me, the healing came relatively suddenly once I made the dietary changes (including the enzymes), I had been exercising for a long time and I added the enzymes. For me, my back pain (2.5 years + backache) ended literally the day I started doing pikes with the TRX system. I haven't had a backache in 1.5 years and I'm very active. Yes, I most likely have lower lumbar DDD and, if I go off the supplments, pain (probaby benign cramp fasciculation syndrome with more cramps than fasciculations (muscle twitches); that part is a self diagnosis). The cramps cause the pain – but they aren't there if I take the supplements. So, I have no pain or tension to speak of if I use the right level of supplements and keep exercising. Many people also find their "magic" stretches and exercises that can dramatically lower their pain. But that is me.

I have posted many times under the pudendal nerve entrapment and also the pain in the butt, can't sit down thread. This is a long post I'd made to another person who was having some glute region pain, but explains what I did and also reviews one of the books I mentioned (Dr. Fors' book). Here goes:
Prior post: "I've posted many times in this thread and pain in the butt can't sit down thread.
Yes, I had some type of fibrosis and myofascial pain in the glutes and legs including piriformis issues and also tension up and down glutes and legs, sciatica, etc. I managed to get rid of it. I'll tell you how below. Please give it a try. Here is a book review I wrote for a book called "Why we hurt and how we heal" by Dr. Greg Fors (buy the white cover edition on Amazon). Proper stretching, nutrition and supplements helped me and most of my sitting pain is now gone. Bear in mind, if you compress a nerve inside tight muscles, it creates nerve pain. It's all in my review. For exercise, I use a TRX suspension system and all other manner of stretching (but also have a pilates machine (Aeropilates 700) and a Lifepro Rumblex 4D vibration plate and go to the gym for weights on machines and I stretch out daily. Good luck. Add the supplements, get moving in ways you can tolerate.

My review:
Dr. Fors book. Why we hurt and How we heal.
I've had some chronic myofascial pain in glutes and legs and I've found essentially the "cure" on my own. In the meanwhile I'd read other books such as "A headache in the pelvis". That book talks about the problem but doesn't specifically give you the cures (only some "cures"). However, Dr. Fors book is the go to book with practical tips and suggestions. His own story "case study" could practically have been my story with sitting pain and muscular tension. In his book Dr. Fors talks about oxidative stress on tissues, etc. For a person who's interested perhaps you could read it all. However, you can skip some and just go to the practical parts and use that information instead. I personally believe it is poorer circulation and poorer tissue remodeling as we age that causes these issues like myofascial tension and pain (including neuropathic pain). Apparently, I had some fibrosis / extra clotting going on as I got older (i.e. 58-ish). I believe the fibrosis in tissues / veins was causing poorer circulation and stiffness. While speculative, it may be deposits of fibrin (the blood clotting protein) that causes issues when deposited in veins, arteries and tissues and that tends to recruit cells of the immune system (granulocytes) and, hence, you also get "inflammation" (there is your low-grade autoimmunity tie in; these are my opinions; not something Dr. Fors mentioned). I believe this was true in my case (I'd had phlebitis in a leg; plantar fascitis in the feet years before, etc., all consistent with some fibrosis of tissues. Western medicine does not seem to understand this well and it seems to go relatively untreated – until you get put on warfarin or some such drug. Supplements may alter and reduce this process. Read below for specific suggestions – many of which were mentioned in Dr. Fors book (I added 2 supplements to my regimen as a result of Dr. Fors' suggestions).

I do believe the supplements are the key to promote healing and proper tissue remodeling / regeneration which may go awry as we age and don't heal properly without the correct supplementation. Said differently, as you age you may need to supplement your diet with various plant substances and minerals, etc., for best health. His book is worth the price of that information alone which he details in a chapter on supplements / nutrition – but he doesn't mention adding a little hemp seed oil, etc. (I'm just writing this off the top of my head – there is a lot in this book – maybe he did mention healthy fats). As you take supplements, do check your blood pressure as these can vary it.

For me, proper supplementation (I added on a couple of Dr. Fors' suggestions, along with stretching and exercise) have largely "cured" my tension and pain in the lower back and glutes. I have lower lumbar degenerative disc disease (which is most likely a “perpetuating factor” for myofascial pain) but all my pain comes from muscular tension and pain – which can be controlled without NSAID's and without antidepressants for me (although for a time, I did use some nortryptline for nerve pain). Honestly, if you cure your gut health (Dr. Fors has a whole chapter on that) and take the right supplements, your myofascial tension and pain may go away on its own without needing to do a bunch of trigger point work (possibly; that is what happened to me – but he has a whole chapter on trigger point removal and has invented a tool you can buy separately for trigger point work – instead of using the usual balls and rollers for this). As one other book reviewer said, until the root problem is cured the trigger points might simply come back – they did for me, too, at one time.
He has whole chapters about each topic. Especially, adding various supplements such as Flavinoids and flavolignins can really help you heal. Some of the supplements Dr. Fors mentioned such as ginger extract to calm digestion and Milk thistle extract (source of flavinlignins) is one of many you can take (silymarin, the active ingredient in milk thistle extract, is a bunch of flavolignins, I believe; I also take diosmin / hesperidin (vein health) and some quercetin (stay below 500 mg or so daily; I discontinued that as of now, though); these are all flavinoids, I believe / resveratrol; ORAC energy greens (full of plant stuff and – you guessed it flavinoids), a low dose rutin (vein health) and extra vitamin C (staying below 2000 mg daily) and a tblsp of hemp seed oil, and turmeric.

The regimen I use along with stretching and exercise reversed or is cutting down on my sitting pain / neuropathic pain in the legs and glutes (i.e. less "sciatica") and reduced fibrosis in the muscles/veins, etc. My legs don't swell as much, either. I also supplemented with enzymes nattokinase / serrapeptidase and lumbrokinase, too, taken between meals to help with possible fibrin (or other amyloid type deposits) in veins / tissues. These are counter-indicated if you have clotting disorders or about 10% of people simply don't tolerate these in the gut. These have never bothered me and helped tremendously. Unfortunately, Dr. Fors did not mention those supplements that might reduce depositions of proteins in veins / tissues and are thought to be anti-inflammatory. However, these might still be considered “alternative medicine” in the west despite being used in Asia for years. Regardless, you might cure your issues with the right supplements alone, without those enzymes. I found milk thistle extract, recommended by Dr. Fors, was a good addition to the above substances as a source of flavinoids. Yes, cut down on added sugars, too, as Dr. Fors (and everyone else in the universe talks about). I had tried some of the other supplements he mentioned (like devils claw – but found it increased my blood pressure). Many others actually lowered my blood pressure! Be sure to monitor your blood pressure.

Thank you Dr. Fors for an excellent book. It was helpful and practical. I was not compensated for this review."

End of that post with minor revisions. I hope this helps. It may give you ideas. While the idea of myofascial release seems appealing, the tissue might need some help remodeling from the enzymes, etc. I am not sure Western doctors are familiar with them. My doctor did a search and found not much info – but not much harmful, either. Good luck.

Sat, Apr 18 4:22pm · Pelvic floor therapy for chronic scrotal content pain (CSCP) in Men's Health

@subarulegacy99 I had some weird myofacial pain syndrome where I had abdominal tension and, with that, some type of pelvic floor dysfunction. None of that was very fun. I had some pain in the you know what area, too, like you did. I think that maps to region S1 / S2 as far as the dermatome concept goes with referred pain. Said differently, referred pain to the groin could be caused by nerve pinches in your lubral / saccral region of your spine (that is almost certainly what I had). Of course, that could cause pelvic floor issues or the pain could be from the pelvic floor tension. I found that two things really helped me a lot. First, in my two years of chronic myofascial pain, I had developed.my own protocol with all supplements (lots of different flavinoids (ORAC green energy), and many supplment flavinoids and higher Vitamin C (<2000 mg/day split up with meals), etc., and hemp seed oil, and turmeric, milk thistle extract, ginger, etc.. These definitely helped my neuropathic and sciatica pain which, I believe comes from muscle tension in various areas (much better now but abdominals, glutes, leg muscle tension generated pain). However, some of my symptoms match up with a neuropathy, too. That's the really short version of my supplment program- but the supplements I use have really cut my pain. So did doing the TRX core suspension exercises and some Pilates reformer exercises (I have bulges, stenosis), etc. in my lower lumbar discs, too but all my pain including nerve pain is from tight muscles clamping on nerves. Strengthening and working particular muscles greatly helped reduce / eliminate my pain.. A lot of the Pilates reformer exercises (especially Pikes and crunches with some resistance) work the pelvic floor (as does a lot of the TRX suspension exercises). As long as I stretch, exercise and take my supplements I’m now pain free (it is often muscular tension that causes the pain; a vicious cycle). These approaches cut my pain and I'm no longer on antidepressants for nerve pain. My exercise program is robust – some might not be up to it – but do what you can. Almost all those core exercises in the TRX suspension series and my Pilates reformer exercises keep the spine straight and should do no harm. Some good books about pain are: "life after pain" by Dr. Jonathan Kuttner (who discusses centralization; he has some programs that deal with this online). "Life after pain" is a $10.00 book and easy to read. However, you'd have to buy some of his other stuff to really get the treatment detail – but some is affordable and online. Also, Dr. Greg Fors, "Why we hurt and how we heal". He discusses a lot and speaks about diet a lot in his book. So, all that being said, have you (and anyone else) looked at your diet? Add lots of green stuff – including supplements. Be sure to monitor blood pressure on supplements as they can alter it. Also, research the doses you need and don't over do those, either. Good luck.

Sat, Apr 18 3:56pm · Central Sensitization - please share your stories in Chronic Pain

@rwinney There is some possible help for neuropathy. There is a Facebook group called "the protocol works" and "the protocol 525" (newer version). You have to dig a bit, but you can find their exact protocol and with the 525 they ship it to you. It involves lots of supplements and minerals and LOTS of healthy fats (nerves like healthy fats). In my two years of chronic myofascial pain, I had developed.my own protocol with all supplements (lots of different flavinoids (ORAC green energy), and many supplment flavinoids and higher Vitamin C (<2000 mg/day split up with meals), etc., and hemp seed oil, and turmeric, milk thistle extract, ginger, etc.. These definitely helped my neuropathic and sciatica pain. However, some of my symptoms match up with a neuropathy, too. That's the really short version of my supplment program- but the supplements I use have really cut my pain. So did doing the TRX core suspension exercises and some Pilates reformer exercises (I have bulges, stenosis), etc. too but all my pain including nerve pain is from tight muscles clamping on nerves. Sltrengthening and working particular muscles greatly helped my pain.. As long as I stretch, exercise and take my supplements I’m pain free. It cut my pain and I'm no longer on antidepressants for nerve pain. When the pain goes down, the centralization issue may go down (one would hope it did for me, to a large extent; The pain monster takes on a life of its own). Some good books about pain are: "life after pain" by Dr. Jonathan Kuttner (who discusses centralization; he has some programs that deal with this online). "Life after pain" is a $10.00 book and easy to read. However, you'd have to buy some of his other stuff to really get the treatment detail – but some is affordable and online. Also, Dr. Greg Fors, "Why we hurt and how we heal". He discusses a lot and speaks about diet a lot in his book. So, all that being said, have you (and anyone else) looked at your diet? Add lots of green stuff – including supplements. Be sure to monitor blood pressure on supplements as they can alter it. Also, research the doses you need and don't over do those, either.

Fri, Mar 13 8:52am · IBS-D in Digestive Health

@coralbells1 check out heathers website. https://www.heatherstummycare.com

She has special fiber and try her tummy tamer tablets with meals Tummy tamers have peppermint, ginger and Finnell which calm things down a lot as you digest. Her products are for sale there or on amazon. Good luck.

Wed, Mar 11 12:10pm · Pudendal Nerve Entrapment/Neuropathy/Damage in Chronic Pain

@shiak22 and others. I've posted many times in this thread and pain in the butt can't sit down thread.

Yes, I had some type of fibrosis and myofascial pain in the glutes and legs including piriformis issues and also tension up and down glutes and legs, sciatica, etc. I managed to get rid of it. I'll tell you how below. Please give it a try. Here is a book review I wrote for a book called "Why we hurt and how we heal" by Dr. Greg Fors (buy the white cover edition on Amazon). Proper stretching, nutrition and supplements helped me and most of my sitting pain is now gone. Bear in mind, if you compress a nerve inside tight muscles, it creates nerve pain. It's all in my review. For exercise, I use a TRX suspension system and all other manner of stretching (but also have a pilates machine (Aeropilates 700) and a Lifepro Rumblex 4D vibration plate and go to the gym for weights on machines and I stretch out daily. Good luck. Add the supplements, get moving in ways you can tolerate.

My review:
Dr. Fors book. Why we hurt and How we heal.

I've had some chronic myofascial pain in glutes and legs and I've found essentially the "cure" on my own. In the meanwhile I'd read other books such as "A headache in the pelvis". That book talks about the problem but doesn't specifically give you the cures (only some "cures"). However, Dr. Fors book is the go to book with practical tips and suggestions. His own story "case study" could practically have been my story with sitting pain and muscular tension. In his book Dr. Fors talks about oxidative stress on tissues, etc. For a person who's interested perhaps you could read it all. However, you can skip some and just go to the practical parts and use that information instead. I personally believe it is poorer circulation and poorer tissue remodeling as we age that causes these issues like myofascial tension and pain (including neuropathic pain). Apparently, I had some fibrosis / extra clotting going on as I got older (i.e. 58-ish). I believe the fibrosis in tissues / veins was causing poorer circulation and stiffness. While speculative, it may be deposits of fibrin (the blood clotting protein) that causes issues when deposited in veins, arteries and tissues and that tends to recruit cells of the immune system (granulocytes) and, hence, you also get "inflammation" (there is your low-grade autoimmunity tie in; these are my opinions; not something Dr. Fors mentioned). I believe this was true in my case. Supplements may alter and reduce this process. Read below for specific suggestions – many of which were mentioned in Dr. Fors book (I added 2 supplements to my regimen as a result of Dr. Fors' suggestions).

I do believe the supplements are the key to promote healing and proper tissue remodeling / regeneration which may go awry as we age and don't heal properly without the correct supplementation. Said differently, as you age you may need to supplement your diet with various plant substances and minerals, etc., for best health. His book is worth the price of that information alone which he details in a chapter on supplements / nutrition – but he doesn't mention adding a little hemp seed oil, etc. (I'm just writing this off the top of my head – there is a lot in this book – maybe he did mention healthy fats). As you take supplements, do check your blood pressure as these can vary it.

For me, proper supplementation (I added on a couple of Dr. Fors' suggestions, along with stretching and exercise) have largely "cured" my tension and pain in the lower back and glutes. I have lower lumbar degenerative disc disease (which is most likely a “perpetuating factor” for myofascial pain) but all my pain comes from muscular tension and pain – which can be controlled without NSAID's and without antidepressants for me (although for a time, I did use some nortryptline for nerve pain). Honestly, if you cure your gut health (Dr. Fors has a whole chapter on that) and take the right supplements, your myofascial tension and pain may go away on its own without needing to do a bunch of trigger point work (possibly; that is what happened to me – but he has a whole chapter on trigger point removal and has invented a tool you can buy separately for trigger point work – instead of using the usual balls and rollers for this). As one other reviewer said, until the root problem is cured the trigger points might simply come back – they did for me, too, at one time.

He has whole chapters about each topic. Especially, adding various supplements such as Flavinoids and flavolignins can really help you heal. Some of the supplements Dr. Fors mentioned such as ginger extract to calm digestion and Milk thistle extract (source of flavinoids) is one of many you can take (silymarin, the active ingredient in milk thistle extract, is a bunch of flavolignins, I believe; I also take diosmin / hesperidin and some quercetin (stay below 500 mg or so daily); these are all flavinoids, I believe / resveratrol; ORAC energy greens (full of plant stuff and – you guessed it flavinoids) and extra vitamin C (staying below 2000 mg daily) and a tblsp of hemp seed oil, and turmeric.

The regimen I use along with stretching and exercise reversed or is cutting down on my sitting pain / neuropathic pain in the legs and glutes (i.e. less "sciatica") and reduced fibrosis in the muscles/veins, etc. I also supplemented with enzymes nattokinase / serrapeptidase and lumbrokinase, too, taken between meals to help with possible fibrin (or other amyloid type deposits) in veins / tissues. These are counter-indicated if you have clotting disorders or about 10% of people simply don't tolerate these in the gut. These have never bothered me and helped tremendously. Unfortunately, Dr. Fors did not mention those supplements that might reduce depositions of proteins in veins / tissues and are thought to be anti-inflammatory. However, these might still be considered “alternative medicine” in the west despite being used in Asia for years. Regardless, you might cure your issues with the right supplements alone, without those enzymes. I found milk thistle extract, recommended by Dr. Fors, was a good addition to the above substances as a source of flavinoids. Yes, cut down on added sugars, too, as Dr. Fors (and everyone else in the universe talks about). I had tried some of the other supplements he mentioned (like devils claw – but found it increased my blood pressure). Many others actually lowered my blood pressure!

Thank you Dr. Fors for an excellent book. It was helpful and practical. I was not compensated for this review.