Too much cold air entering the nostrils

Posted by learningstudent @learningstudent, Apr 16, 2020

Well…Recently I have developed a weird symptom. I think I have had it for a month. My nose has no mucus, booger and when I inhale, I feel like there is too much air entering my nostrils so I have to use something to block part of it. Otherwise I feel so uncomfortable and suffocated. My right nostril is getting worse, there is no congestion or anything and sometimes my face or nose seems to lose sensation. When the turbinates work normally, they will shrink and swell up and provide warm air but this does not happen to my nose. All the air I breathe in is cold and is not warm at all. I am just wondering what causes it because for people who have atrophic sinusitis, they will have nose blockage. But I do not, I feel my nose is so empty and too much air entering them when inhaling even my nose is not dried. I hope somebody could help.

I have checked my nose, I do not see any turbinates, only hair and the holes of my nose. I have never done any turbinate reduction or nasal surgery.

Interested in more discussions like this? Go to the Ear, Nose & Throat (ENT) group.

@nrd1

@du6721
•3 years of fascial/nasal swelling post surgery does not sound right.
•I’m sure you went for follow ups and were told you were healing fine and that inflammation/ swelling can take up to a year to go away. Am I correct?
•What happens during this time is that anything you may start to feel indifferent about is chalked up to healing nerves and swelling.
•If the nose is too open, and the tissue is exposed to too fast, dry air, swelling can occur as a defense mechanism and response, keeping your tissues in an inflammatory state, but we naturally think it’s from the trauma of surgery. So you keep just telling yourself “I’m swollen from surgery”. That is not the case.
•The swollen feeling is the tissue response to air not flowing properly and hitting nerves and tissues differently. Not having a streamlined smooth flow. Ultimately disrupting the entire nasal cycle.
•For example-lets say patient explains a subjective feeling of not being able to breathe trough right side. Well truth is you can breathe, it just doesn’t feel the same as on your left. So what could be a very small 1mm of space causing you to feel uncomfortable, a surgeon comes in and visually determines on their own, how much space you need to breathe. That is not how the body works. Another person, ENT, can not look at your nose and know what you would need to feel better. It is all a guess, and you hope it ends up close to comfortable.
So an ENT makes a 2mm difference on your inferior turbinate and then makes a 2mm difference in your septum. Now all of the sudden you a 4 mm difference when you barely needed anything. So you now have a new subjective feeling.
Although air felt constricted before it hadn’t disrupted a whole natural cycle.
•Antibiotics can also have an anti inflammatory affect. So if you took a round and feel more open, it could be that the antibiotics reduced the compensatory inflammation that had been occurring with the new changed airflow.
•Ultimately ENTs know little about the form and function of the nose. It is an embarrassing specialty that puts many patients at risk.

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Yeah I'm not really sure what's going on my symptoms are fluctuating but thankfully I feel much better than I did a few weeks ago. I'm watching my diet for now and monitoring my symptoms, diet and behaviour. That's all I can do really.

If things don't improve significantly in a few months I may consider the Stem cell injections.
What do you think?

REPLY
@du6721

Yeah I'm not really sure what's going on my symptoms are fluctuating but thankfully I feel much better than I did a few weeks ago. I'm watching my diet for now and monitoring my symptoms, diet and behaviour. That's all I can do really.

If things don't improve significantly in a few months I may consider the Stem cell injections.
What do you think?

Jump to this post

Du721, I'm unfamiliar with the use of stem cells for nasal symptoms and to regenerate turbinate function. To my surprise I found this review of regenerative medicine and nasal surgery from Mayo Clinic proceedings. The paper discusses findings from 1994-2014.
– Regenerative Medicine and Nasal Surgery https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(14)00877-5/pdf

It can be really difficult to tell which stem cell therapies and regenerative medicine practices are effective and which institutions are offering evidence-based proven therapies. What's hope and what is hype?

To help people learn more about the proven therapies and the promise of developing therapies, Mayo Clinic offers a free telephone consult service. When you call the consult service, they will tell you about the availability of approved stem cell therapy at Mayo Clinic and elsewhere, and for what conditions. They can also tell you about research studies that are actively recruiting participants. Furthermore, you can add your name to a database to be notified when additional studies and information become available. You can learn more about the Consult Service here http://www.mayo.edu/research/centers-programs/center-regenerative-medicine/patient-care/clinical-services/regenerative-medicine-consult-service.
Or call 1-844-276-2003 to speak with one of Mayo's experts.

REPLY
@du6721

Yeah I'm not really sure what's going on my symptoms are fluctuating but thankfully I feel much better than I did a few weeks ago. I'm watching my diet for now and monitoring my symptoms, diet and behaviour. That's all I can do really.

If things don't improve significantly in a few months I may consider the Stem cell injections.
What do you think?

Jump to this post

@du6721
• I would do everything you can on your own first.
•Especially if you are feeling improvement.
•Even stem cell injections/implants etc…are all still experimental.
•Even these procedures are determined based off what you explain.
•I think the swollen feeling you’ve been having has been your bodies over compensation response. But you wouldn’t know that. Once that changes goes down a bit, that’s when you are being made aware of the openness.
•Any turbinate/nasal surgery is going to cause some kind of disfunction as you are no longer dealing with the original anatomy and your body is now trying to adapt to these new changes. This is what they don’t tell you.
•Unless Das has a discussion with you about airflow dynamics then I wouldn’t move forward. The injections/implants are all a wait and see approach. The nose has too many moving parts. He would have to see you in person.
•The ENT community does not fully understand their own field. Only you know your body best. What’s right and what’s not. Unfortunately after Mother Nature is messed with it’s hard to regain normalcy. It’s sad because on this site, we can not give medical advice as we are not medical professionals. But many people end up here due to medical professional mistakes. So ultimately our word/experience is more honest and real world than a medical professional once they’ve caused harm post surgery.

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@learningstudent

I think I know what happens. I think my lowest turbinates dysfunction. Is there a way to fix it?

According to the article snippet. "Inferior nasal turbinates are located inside your nose on either side of your nasal septum. They are bone covered with erectile soft tissue that helps create turbulence inside the nose to warm, purify and humidify the air that we breathe. The soft tissue covering expands and contracts which can give you the sensation of congestion and clear breathing, respectively."

Jump to this post

Hi @learningstudent and everybody else suffering from similar symptoms.

My son has had problems with his breathing since last autumn 2020. He has a deviated septum and he was looking for help from an ENT. He got prescribet nasal corticosteroids (Mometasone) and after using the nasal spray for two months he claims that he has lost the sensation of air flowing in his nose. He can't also feel the temprature differences, e.g. if the air is cold. The condition is a little bit different from yours, but my guess would also be that it has something to do with the dysfunction of the turbinates.

Could there be one factor that would explain these strange symptoms? Have you used any nasal sprays before your problem started?

Have you or anybody found any alleviating solutions or answers?

I would very much appreciate your answer and hope your condition has got better.

REPLY
@joannap

Hi @learningstudent and everybody else suffering from similar symptoms.

My son has had problems with his breathing since last autumn 2020. He has a deviated septum and he was looking for help from an ENT. He got prescribet nasal corticosteroids (Mometasone) and after using the nasal spray for two months he claims that he has lost the sensation of air flowing in his nose. He can't also feel the temprature differences, e.g. if the air is cold. The condition is a little bit different from yours, but my guess would also be that it has something to do with the dysfunction of the turbinates.

Could there be one factor that would explain these strange symptoms? Have you used any nasal sprays before your problem started?

Have you or anybody found any alleviating solutions or answers?

I would very much appreciate your answer and hope your condition has got better.

Jump to this post

Hello @joannap, Welcome to Connect. I think it's bad enough when we have to deal with these types of problems ourselves but to watch our kids struggle with it is even worse. I also have a deviated septum that I've put up with all my life but I'm 78. I was considering a septoplasty but wanted a non surgical solution due to risk factors involved.

I met with my Mayo ENT and he prescribed a Mayo Clinic proprietary nasal spray with 3 ingredients — Mometasone to reduce inflammation, Ipratropium to reduce nasal drainage and Diphenhydramine which is an antihistamine to help reduce nasal drainage. The product description on my prescription is MOMET 0.033% – IPRA 0.02% – DIPH 0.02%. I do a nasal rinse mornings and evenings followed by 2 sprays in each nostril. I'm into my 3rd month using the spray and nasal rinse and it has done an amazing job helping my breathing through my right nostril which was mostly always plugged. My ENT wanted me to try it for 3 months to see if it helps.

I've used saline solution sprays, Flonase and Fluticasone Proprionate in the past without much success. The propriety nasal spray along with the twice daily nasal rinse seems to be helping me but I'm also thinking I'm not sure I want to use it long term due to possible side effects so will have that discussion with my ENT soon.

Here's some information on Mometasone Nasal Spray and side effects: https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a602024.html

Have you discussed your son's strange symptoms with his ENT doctor?

REPLY
@joannap

Hi @learningstudent and everybody else suffering from similar symptoms.

My son has had problems with his breathing since last autumn 2020. He has a deviated septum and he was looking for help from an ENT. He got prescribet nasal corticosteroids (Mometasone) and after using the nasal spray for two months he claims that he has lost the sensation of air flowing in his nose. He can't also feel the temprature differences, e.g. if the air is cold. The condition is a little bit different from yours, but my guess would also be that it has something to do with the dysfunction of the turbinates.

Could there be one factor that would explain these strange symptoms? Have you used any nasal sprays before your problem started?

Have you or anybody found any alleviating solutions or answers?

I would very much appreciate your answer and hope your condition has got better.

Jump to this post

@joannap-metamathasone and other nasal corticosteroids cause dryness, vasoconstriction and can disrupt the skin barrier of the delicate nasal mucosa.
The nasal mucosal skin needs to remain moist in order to function and feel sensation properly.
The shrinking down of the mucosal tissue can make the airway feel too open, which could be reason why your son may not be getting the sensation that he was used to getting when air enters.

If the air enters too quickly due to a lack of resistance the nasal cavity does not have enough time to do warm and humidity the air before it makes its way to the lungs.
If your son has underlying allergies and had an exacerbation of these allergies I would start there. Steroids only address an issue from the outside, which can also damage the delicate skin and nasal mucosal lining.
These are all things you can bring up to your ENT. When asked, they will also tell you the same.

REPLY

Many thanks you for your answer. My son has no allergies and the ENT prescribed the corticosteroid because he thought the turbines were swallen or otherwise to big. My son stopped using the spray aa soon he noticed something was not ok. We never could have imagined that a simple nasal spray could be so poten and apparently harmful.

If the mucosa has been damaged or shrunken, can we expect it to heal and what should we do to make it better? In addition my son has a skin with a tendency to keloid scarring. Could this happening inside the nose?

My son is quite distressed with this feeling on no air and has also the feeling of suffocating from time to time. I would appreciate your answer very much.

REPLY
@johnbishop

Hello @joannap, Welcome to Connect. I think it's bad enough when we have to deal with these types of problems ourselves but to watch our kids struggle with it is even worse. I also have a deviated septum that I've put up with all my life but I'm 78. I was considering a septoplasty but wanted a non surgical solution due to risk factors involved.

I met with my Mayo ENT and he prescribed a Mayo Clinic proprietary nasal spray with 3 ingredients — Mometasone to reduce inflammation, Ipratropium to reduce nasal drainage and Diphenhydramine which is an antihistamine to help reduce nasal drainage. The product description on my prescription is MOMET 0.033% – IPRA 0.02% – DIPH 0.02%. I do a nasal rinse mornings and evenings followed by 2 sprays in each nostril. I'm into my 3rd month using the spray and nasal rinse and it has done an amazing job helping my breathing through my right nostril which was mostly always plugged. My ENT wanted me to try it for 3 months to see if it helps.

I've used saline solution sprays, Flonase and Fluticasone Proprionate in the past without much success. The propriety nasal spray along with the twice daily nasal rinse seems to be helping me but I'm also thinking I'm not sure I want to use it long term due to possible side effects so will have that discussion with my ENT soon.

Here's some information on Mometasone Nasal Spray and side effects: https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a602024.html

Have you discussed your son's strange symptoms with his ENT doctor?

Jump to this post

Hi @johnbishop

Thank you for your answer and telling your own story. I guess the spray can really help others as you described and I'm glad that it has proved to be a good solution for you.

We have talked to the ENT who prescribed the spray but he denied the spray could have caused the problem. We saw also another ENT who is also an expert in ENS, but she claimed also that the spray could not cause such symptomes. She told us that if the mucosa in the nose would have been harmed, it would heal and renew it self in a short time as skin usually does. However the loss of sensation has lasted now already over eight months.

My son has also a tendency to keloid scarring an I was worrying could the skin/mucosa in the nose develope a keloid scar if injured? The ENT told us though that mucosa is different than the surface skin and thus this kind of scarring would not be possible.

My son tries now moisturing the nose with an A-vitamine nasal spray and with a steam inhaler. Saline has not helped.

REPLY
@joannap

Many thanks you for your answer. My son has no allergies and the ENT prescribed the corticosteroid because he thought the turbines were swallen or otherwise to big. My son stopped using the spray aa soon he noticed something was not ok. We never could have imagined that a simple nasal spray could be so poten and apparently harmful.

If the mucosa has been damaged or shrunken, can we expect it to heal and what should we do to make it better? In addition my son has a skin with a tendency to keloid scarring. Could this happening inside the nose?

My son is quite distressed with this feeling on no air and has also the feeling of suffocating from time to time. I would appreciate your answer very much.

Jump to this post

@joannap– the epithelium in the nose is different than skin on the body, this is true. However it still has sensitivities just as regular skin on the body. It is actually more delicate as it performs many functions. In saying that everyone can have a different reaction to nasal sprays, just as people can have different skin reactions to lotions, creams etc…placed on the body.
“Visually” to the ENT your sons turbinates could have looked enlarged to him. If the sprays decreased tissue volume in a way that is not comfortable or conducive to how your son was used to feeling or sensing air before this may be what he is experiencing. A sensation of being too open for him. The nose congests, expands and contracts all day long, it’s a natural part of the nasal cycle. If your son is not feeling this natural congestion if his turbinates are now smaller, this may also be what he is feeling. The nose is a very subjective place. With many nerves and reasons for tissue changes. That’s why it is really challenging to match subjective to objective symptoms.
ENTs are only focused with making a clear air pathway. However the subjective feeling/sensation of openness will ever only come from what the patient is feeling and not what the doctors are seeing. They can only ever look at someone and say “I see where you are blocked”. Even though they “see” a blockage, that may not truly be the issue for the patient. Once enlargements or blockages are removed, relieved or open, they will only see a clear open pathway and not understand what the problem is. Skin sensation can not be visualized as well. They can assess for atrophy, inflammation, pailness, dryness. If you can meet with an ENT who will spend enough time understanding and truly assessing the nasal mucosa that would be a start. It sounds like the turbinates are not contesting, expanding or contracting as they should, therefore causing a feeling of suffocation and openness. Otherwise I would work with a natural path for restoration. Focus on really good nutrients and hydration. As well as the distress. The stress can bring more attention to the area which causes a cycle. I really emphasize finding a provider who understands what he is explaining. The provider has to understand that the suffocation feeling is not from a blocked nose, but is from lack of sensation of air passing along the lateral wall. The way we sense airflow is the shear wall stress between the lateral nasal wall and septum. This requires tight functioning pathways, not made larger or more open.

REPLY
@nrd1

@joannap– the epithelium in the nose is different than skin on the body, this is true. However it still has sensitivities just as regular skin on the body. It is actually more delicate as it performs many functions. In saying that everyone can have a different reaction to nasal sprays, just as people can have different skin reactions to lotions, creams etc…placed on the body.
“Visually” to the ENT your sons turbinates could have looked enlarged to him. If the sprays decreased tissue volume in a way that is not comfortable or conducive to how your son was used to feeling or sensing air before this may be what he is experiencing. A sensation of being too open for him. The nose congests, expands and contracts all day long, it’s a natural part of the nasal cycle. If your son is not feeling this natural congestion if his turbinates are now smaller, this may also be what he is feeling. The nose is a very subjective place. With many nerves and reasons for tissue changes. That’s why it is really challenging to match subjective to objective symptoms.
ENTs are only focused with making a clear air pathway. However the subjective feeling/sensation of openness will ever only come from what the patient is feeling and not what the doctors are seeing. They can only ever look at someone and say “I see where you are blocked”. Even though they “see” a blockage, that may not truly be the issue for the patient. Once enlargements or blockages are removed, relieved or open, they will only see a clear open pathway and not understand what the problem is. Skin sensation can not be visualized as well. They can assess for atrophy, inflammation, pailness, dryness. If you can meet with an ENT who will spend enough time understanding and truly assessing the nasal mucosa that would be a start. It sounds like the turbinates are not contesting, expanding or contracting as they should, therefore causing a feeling of suffocation and openness. Otherwise I would work with a natural path for restoration. Focus on really good nutrients and hydration. As well as the distress. The stress can bring more attention to the area which causes a cycle. I really emphasize finding a provider who understands what he is explaining. The provider has to understand that the suffocation feeling is not from a blocked nose, but is from lack of sensation of air passing along the lateral wall. The way we sense airflow is the shear wall stress between the lateral nasal wall and septum. This requires tight functioning pathways, not made larger or more open.

Jump to this post

@joannap-you mentioned you saw a provider who is an expert in ENS. I’m curious as whom this provider is and if they could possibly help others experiencing this? I have yet to hear of a provider who is an expert in ENS. It would be helpful to make contact.

REPLY
@nrd1

@joannap-you mentioned you saw a provider who is an expert in ENS. I’m curious as whom this provider is and if they could possibly help others experiencing this? I have yet to hear of a provider who is an expert in ENS. It would be helpful to make contact.

Jump to this post

Hi,

I'm glad to tell who the provider is but I'm writing from Finland, Europe. The ENT is Maija Hytönen and she is a doctor at Mehiläinen in Helsinki.

I was reaching out to "wider waters" because the expertiese in this field seems to be quite limited here.

REPLY
@nrd1

@joannap– the epithelium in the nose is different than skin on the body, this is true. However it still has sensitivities just as regular skin on the body. It is actually more delicate as it performs many functions. In saying that everyone can have a different reaction to nasal sprays, just as people can have different skin reactions to lotions, creams etc…placed on the body.
“Visually” to the ENT your sons turbinates could have looked enlarged to him. If the sprays decreased tissue volume in a way that is not comfortable or conducive to how your son was used to feeling or sensing air before this may be what he is experiencing. A sensation of being too open for him. The nose congests, expands and contracts all day long, it’s a natural part of the nasal cycle. If your son is not feeling this natural congestion if his turbinates are now smaller, this may also be what he is feeling. The nose is a very subjective place. With many nerves and reasons for tissue changes. That’s why it is really challenging to match subjective to objective symptoms.
ENTs are only focused with making a clear air pathway. However the subjective feeling/sensation of openness will ever only come from what the patient is feeling and not what the doctors are seeing. They can only ever look at someone and say “I see where you are blocked”. Even though they “see” a blockage, that may not truly be the issue for the patient. Once enlargements or blockages are removed, relieved or open, they will only see a clear open pathway and not understand what the problem is. Skin sensation can not be visualized as well. They can assess for atrophy, inflammation, pailness, dryness. If you can meet with an ENT who will spend enough time understanding and truly assessing the nasal mucosa that would be a start. It sounds like the turbinates are not contesting, expanding or contracting as they should, therefore causing a feeling of suffocation and openness. Otherwise I would work with a natural path for restoration. Focus on really good nutrients and hydration. As well as the distress. The stress can bring more attention to the area which causes a cycle. I really emphasize finding a provider who understands what he is explaining. The provider has to understand that the suffocation feeling is not from a blocked nose, but is from lack of sensation of air passing along the lateral wall. The way we sense airflow is the shear wall stress between the lateral nasal wall and septum. This requires tight functioning pathways, not made larger or more open.

Jump to this post

Thank you again for your long answer! I'm really gratefull to have had a chance to talk with someone over this condition most doctors do not acknowledge at all. It was really good hearing another opinion and getting hands-on advice.

REPLY
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