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clark711
@clark711

Posts: 9
Joined: Jan 27, 2018

My 3 ways to immediately lower my blood pressure - wine is one

Posted by @clark711, Sat, Jan 27 2:34pm

I am a male, 72 years old, in good physical condition, rated “Excellent” by the Fitbit Cardio Fitness score. 5’10” 175 pounds, trying to lose 10 more. I work out regularly, play Pickleball, do weights often, walk 10,000 steps per day. People often comment on how youthful I look and act.

I have no stress in life. I am happy, healthy. I have a great marriage. My wife is also happy and healthy. We have fun together, laugh often. I am fairly well-off, financially speaking.

But I do have a Blood Pressure concern. I take 10 mg of Lisinopril in the morning, 10 at night. I often wake up with a BP of 145-150 over 90-95. My first few hours normally are devoted to getting my BP back down. Medication does not help immediately. It’s hard to see if medication helps at all.

The three things I can do just about every morning are 1) drink 2 to 3 oz of red wine, 2) briskly walk, mild jogging, for 2 to 3 miles, and 3) breathing into a paper bag for 5 minutes.

I see so much discussion, some lecturing, about wine. It may/may not be good for me long range, but 3 oz is definitely good for me almost immediately. Why is red wine that good, that quickly ? Please forget the mind/social/Chi benefits. I am a Chemical Engineer, believe the body to be much like a factory, and would like to know what chemical/physical reaction takes place with red wine to reduce my BP so repeatedly, so quickly.

Yes, walking is definitely good for me long range. Keeps my weight down, better oxygen efficiency, better coordination and muscles, better Chi. But why does brisk walking have such a beneficial immediate reduction of my blood pressure?

The paper bag over the head is often recommended to lower stress, control breathing, put the body back into a lower rhythm. But I believe there is also an immediate chemical/physical effect. Is it because my blood becomes higher in CO2 concentration quickly, and CO2 leads to vasodilation ?

I often can get my blood pressure down to about 120-125 over 65-70 after one or more of these three techniques. It may stay that way most of the day. I do need to stay reasonably active, because the BP may go up again if I slouch on the sofa all day, which I seldom do, since I am a physical activity person.

I would appreciate any comments. I want to get my BP down, and keep it down, hopefully without having night-time increases.

Clark

REPLY

I also should say that my afternoon BP often is as low as 105 over 65 or so. That says to me, a non-doctor, that my Diastolic pressure increases/decreases for whatever immediate chemical or physical reason, and the Systolic pressure just follows my DBP with a normal pressure pulse of 40 to 55. That also hopefully indicates that I don’t have any blood clotting, just increasing BP due to less elastic arteries at age of 72.

Hello @clark711. Glad you joined us and brought along an interesting set of issues to discuss. Since I’ve had a couple of small glasses of wine, I hope you’ll understand if I get a little jocular as the day drifts toward its close. Glad to hear that your overall health is so darn good. I get comments on how healthy (not youthful, I’m 82) I look, but I have a way to go to match your hearty self.

Wish I had YOUR blood pressure concern. You take 10mg of Lisinopril morning and evening; I take 40mg before bedtime after 25 of Carvedilol (beta blocker) and 10 of Amiloride (diuretic) both morning and evening. If you wake up at 145/95, I match that (but with a lot more meds). Fortunately, current guidance on MAXIMUM BP for people your age and mine is just about right on that number, so I’m feeling fine.

Also, I don’t worry about it (in part because) I and many of my hypertensive friends start out the day at their highest BP levels after 7 or 8 hours of sleep and deprivation from the benefits of our meds. I doubt that you’re going to see your BP over night stay mid-day low. An hour after my morning meds, I’m on course for 130/85 for the rest of the day!

Now about that wine: Somebody (not me) is going to accuse you of concocting an excuse to imbibe by giving the wine credit for BP relief, when your brisk walk-jog more than 2 miles is suspiciously effective in bringing down BP. It is for me! Warming up the body and circulating fresh blood through the arteries does wonders for my morning BP; I’ve assumed the exercise convinces the arterial walls to relax and let the blood flow more readily.

Breathing into a paper bag is not among my tactics, although capturing the carbon dioxide keeps it out of the atmosphere, I suppose, and thereby hedges global warming a bit. I can’t think of any research that has suggested that carbon dioxide persuades the arteries to relax, although nitric oxide certainly does (as shown by medication for relief of angina pectoris pains around the heart).

So where do I find myself now? Favoring the notion that physical activity is more likely to drop BP swiftly than wine (or even some of the most noble anti-tensive medications). But I confess that I’ll continue to fool my wife into believing that my wine is necessary medication for my BP, and that’ll work for me so long as I don’t drive off the road on the way back from dinner at the club.
Martin

I have been taking Atenolol for many years and my then physician added Lisinoprol about two years ago. Recently my new physician suggested I eliminate the Lisinoprol because he thought it was causing the the dizziness and lightheadedness I had been experiencing (instead of by the eye drops which the opthomologist thought was causing it). After about three days without the Lisinoprol the dizziness and lightheadedness disappeared.

Instead of the Lisinoprol I began drinking a cup of ginger (only) tea in the morning and after lunch and ginger pieces (after washing off the crystalization (sugar) coated on it after dinner. I also take one 25 mg Atenolol at 3 p.m daily. My resting blood pressure is usually about 122/71 with 73 pulse.

I am 91 years old, in good health, still strong enough to maintain my home without help , and also am still driviing. I usually wallk 20 minutes about five times a week. I have a large home so do a lot of walking from room to room during the day.

Liked by thankful

I’d like to thank both of you who gave me excellent replies. I “guess” it’s good to know that others have higher BP in the morning.

But I do need to correct an illogical conclusion I made. I am a Chemical Engineer. Logic is very important to me.

Here is my corrected logic. Feel free to discuss/disagree.

Even though I take it, Lisinopril does not help my BP. Because my higher morning BP is not caused by my artery tightness. If it were my pulse pressure (the difference between Diastolic and Systolic) would be higher in the morning. It is not.

My BP does go up in the morning, but that increase is caused by my Diastolic pressure going up, not because my arteries are stiff and not opened properly. The Systolic pressure does increase only because it takes that much pressure to overcome the higher Diastolic pressure.

So why does my Diastolic pressure go up, at various times, including in the morning? I have absolutely no idea. What cases the systemic system to increase in resting pressure? Any thoughts ?

Regarding CO2, this article and others agree that it is a powerful vasodilator.

But I also realize that I am just guessing, and arguing both sides. Why would I care about a better vasodilator if I believe the root cause is a higher Diastolic pressure. How would improved vasodilation decrease the Diastolic pressure ?

Thank you again.

Clark

I have often heard and read that high or low blood pressure is not a disease but a symptom of a basic physiological problem. Address the problem and the symptom will, in all likelihood, correct itself. In a search for the problem I would like to recommend a book that may, in many cases, lead to the source of the problem. The book is “Your Body’s Many Cries For Water,” by Dr. F. Batmanghelidg, M.D.

@clark711

I’d like to thank both of you who gave me excellent replies. I “guess” it’s good to know that others have higher BP in the morning.

But I do need to correct an illogical conclusion I made. I am a Chemical Engineer. Logic is very important to me.

Here is my corrected logic. Feel free to discuss/disagree.

Even though I take it, Lisinopril does not help my BP. Because my higher morning BP is not caused by my artery tightness. If it were my pulse pressure (the difference between Diastolic and Systolic) would be higher in the morning. It is not.

My BP does go up in the morning, but that increase is caused by my Diastolic pressure going up, not because my arteries are stiff and not opened properly. The Systolic pressure does increase only because it takes that much pressure to overcome the higher Diastolic pressure.

So why does my Diastolic pressure go up, at various times, including in the morning? I have absolutely no idea. What cases the systemic system to increase in resting pressure? Any thoughts ?

Regarding CO2, this article and others agree that it is a powerful vasodilator.

But I also realize that I am just guessing, and arguing both sides. Why would I care about a better vasodilator if I believe the root cause is a higher Diastolic pressure. How would improved vasodilation decrease the Diastolic pressure ?

Thank you again.

Clark

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Good points, @clark711. Adding diastolic pressure and pulse pressure to your symptoms prompts me to ask what your doctors have told you about the possibility of atrial fibrillation or hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Have they tested you for hormonal effects precipitated by the brain, kidneys, or adrenal glands? What made you think that your diastolic pressure is a primary cause of your rising systolic pressure?

Rather than parsing the impact of your symptoms, I’ll suggest that you discuss them in detail with your cardiologist AND a nephrologist (possibly assisted by an endocrinologist). They will be fascinated by your status as well as your analysis, and they should have good answers or better questions to seek answers for.

In my case, Cardiology and Internal Medicine mistreated me for a number of years before my new HMO sent me to a nephrologist, and she brought in an endocrinologist. They put me on Lisinopril (a common kidney-related medication) at four times the dosage of your Lisinopril. I take this medication on my way to bed for the night, so it is available when my kidneys are most active as I sleep and doesn’t interfere with conscious physical activity (no dizziness).

In over 20 years of treatment for hypertension, I learned that the medical manual way of treating it starts with the fewest and simplest guesses about its cause, then adds more and more questions at each rising level of inquiry. Perhaps you and your medical team need good data on a number of factors not previously studied. I also learned that inferences and imputations (sometimes called suspicions) are no match for direct, focused, objective medical tests — laboratory as well as dynamic and imaging. Without those, my heroic medical team might never have diagnosed my very rare situation:

1) Hypertension caused by shortage of potassium, not hypokalemia (low potassium) caused by hypertension; and

2) Genetic kidney mutation that refuses to recover potassium that the kidney strains out of the blood.

You deserve praise for pursuing good answers to your symptoms, and I hope you will give us the benefit of what you learn in the days ahead. We’ll all be appreciative and supportive. Martin

@clark711

I’d like to thank both of you who gave me excellent replies. I “guess” it’s good to know that others have higher BP in the morning.

But I do need to correct an illogical conclusion I made. I am a Chemical Engineer. Logic is very important to me.

Here is my corrected logic. Feel free to discuss/disagree.

Even though I take it, Lisinopril does not help my BP. Because my higher morning BP is not caused by my artery tightness. If it were my pulse pressure (the difference between Diastolic and Systolic) would be higher in the morning. It is not.

My BP does go up in the morning, but that increase is caused by my Diastolic pressure going up, not because my arteries are stiff and not opened properly. The Systolic pressure does increase only because it takes that much pressure to overcome the higher Diastolic pressure.

So why does my Diastolic pressure go up, at various times, including in the morning? I have absolutely no idea. What cases the systemic system to increase in resting pressure? Any thoughts ?

Regarding CO2, this article and others agree that it is a powerful vasodilator.

But I also realize that I am just guessing, and arguing both sides. Why would I care about a better vasodilator if I believe the root cause is a higher Diastolic pressure. How would improved vasodilation decrease the Diastolic pressure ?

Thank you again.

Clark

Jump to this post

This morning my BP was 117/67 after waking. Very good.
Yesterday morning my BP was 151/96 after waking. Kinda bad.

Pulse rate about the same. No morning medicine, exercise, wine, for those first readings. I woke up in good spirits, good night’s sleep, good day before, on both occasions. Yet there was a big difference in BP. I wish I knew why.

Why do I believe that Diastolic BP is the problem ? Because it apparently “leads” my BP up or down. The differential pressure between DP and SP (pulse pressure as doctors term it) is about the same, and normal, which would say to me that artery/arteriole tightness is not a problem. If it were, then my pulse pressure would increase with higher BPs, my SP would go up, but the DP could stay about the same.

That is also the reason why I don’t think my Lisinopril is helpful, since its purpose is to make the arteries and arterioles less rigid.

No, I have not sought help in depth. My doctor just basically treats the prescribed way. I go into his office, take my BP, he says it’s better or worse, and adjusts Lisinopril accordingly. And the nurse is always jabbering, asking questions, when she takes my BP.

But I have learned a lot about my daily cycle of BP, and have significant data on the numbers, since my last doctor visit. The next time I see him, I will ask more in depth. My BP problem is obviously more complex than either a) clogged arteries or b) rigid arteries.

Martin, thanks much for your comments. They are very helpful.

By the way, I forgot to include the link about the benefit of higher CO2 in arterial blood. I Googled this morning, found the link but also found other links which apparently stated that BP goes up with higher CO2.

This is the “CO2 is good” link, which includes this comment — ‘Since CO2 is the most potent vasodilator’ Wait, the forum won’t let me post links. The website is normalbreathing dot com. The tab is CO2 Effects.

Another question – Does anyone from Mayo itself check the discussions on this forum, or is just us civilians ?

Thanks — Have a great day, low BP included.

Clark

Clark (@clark711), I looked into the web site you suggested. It provides no explanation of its status in its discipline — pulmonology, which focuses primarily on lungs and the diseases that threaten them. I was also struck by the site’s obvious sales pitches, perhaps designed to attract patients, so I looked into ownership of the web site and found it to be the product of a relatively new pulmonology practice near a new hospital located a few miles from Dulles International Airport in northern Virginia (NOVA). As with most advertising, I find it no more trustworthy than political rhetoric, which also shows up on this web site by disputing scientific information about the role of carbon dioxide in global warming.

Given Nova Pulmonology’s written materials and pointed political views, I will be looking toward recognized medical research groups (like the National Institutes of Health) for information about the benefits and disadvantages of carbon dioxide in human physiology.
Martin

@clark711

I’d like to thank both of you who gave me excellent replies. I “guess” it’s good to know that others have higher BP in the morning.

But I do need to correct an illogical conclusion I made. I am a Chemical Engineer. Logic is very important to me.

Here is my corrected logic. Feel free to discuss/disagree.

Even though I take it, Lisinopril does not help my BP. Because my higher morning BP is not caused by my artery tightness. If it were my pulse pressure (the difference between Diastolic and Systolic) would be higher in the morning. It is not.

My BP does go up in the morning, but that increase is caused by my Diastolic pressure going up, not because my arteries are stiff and not opened properly. The Systolic pressure does increase only because it takes that much pressure to overcome the higher Diastolic pressure.

So why does my Diastolic pressure go up, at various times, including in the morning? I have absolutely no idea. What cases the systemic system to increase in resting pressure? Any thoughts ?

Regarding CO2, this article and others agree that it is a powerful vasodilator.

But I also realize that I am just guessing, and arguing both sides. Why would I care about a better vasodilator if I believe the root cause is a higher Diastolic pressure. How would improved vasodilation decrease the Diastolic pressure ?

Thank you again.

Clark

Jump to this post

Hi Clark,
Mayo Clinic Connect is an online community where you can share your experiences and find support from people like you. You can read more about Connect and how it is managed and monitored here:
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/about-this-community/
https://connect.mayoclinic.org/about-our-moderators-and-mentors/

@predictable

Clark (@clark711), I looked into the web site you suggested. It provides no explanation of its status in its discipline — pulmonology, which focuses primarily on lungs and the diseases that threaten them. I was also struck by the site’s obvious sales pitches, perhaps designed to attract patients, so I looked into ownership of the web site and found it to be the product of a relatively new pulmonology practice near a new hospital located a few miles from Dulles International Airport in northern Virginia (NOVA). As with most advertising, I find it no more trustworthy than political rhetoric, which also shows up on this web site by disputing scientific information about the role of carbon dioxide in global warming.

Given Nova Pulmonology’s written materials and pointed political views, I will be looking toward recognized medical research groups (like the National Institutes of Health) for information about the benefits and disadvantages of carbon dioxide in human physiology.
Martin

Jump to this post

Martin,Thanks for the reply.
My primary interest is how best to keep my Diastolic pressure low, 125 or less. I mentioned CO2 because I saw more than one site stating that higher levels of CO2  dilated the arteries, keeping BP lower. Breathing into a bag seemed to work for me, although a very unscientific test. I remain focused on how best to keep my Diastolic pressure from rising, thereby also causing my Systolic pressure to increase, maintaining the same pulse pressure to keep a constant blood flow

@predictable

Clark (@clark711), I looked into the web site you suggested. It provides no explanation of its status in its discipline — pulmonology, which focuses primarily on lungs and the diseases that threaten them. I was also struck by the site’s obvious sales pitches, perhaps designed to attract patients, so I looked into ownership of the web site and found it to be the product of a relatively new pulmonology practice near a new hospital located a few miles from Dulles International Airport in northern Virginia (NOVA). As with most advertising, I find it no more trustworthy than political rhetoric, which also shows up on this web site by disputing scientific information about the role of carbon dioxide in global warming.

Given Nova Pulmonology’s written materials and pointed political views, I will be looking toward recognized medical research groups (like the National Institutes of Health) for information about the benefits and disadvantages of carbon dioxide in human physiology.
Martin

Jump to this post

Good thinking, Clark. But I’m a little confused about a diastolic pressure of 125. That’s very high for diastolic. Most medical professionals want diastolic to remain below 100, with systolic (usually the first number) no higher than the 140s. Like you, I spend a lot of time tracking down information on the Internet. What I find is most helpful in formulating questions to put to my medical team. I’m not comfortable following my own interpretations of what I find in references on the Internet — or in the library, for that matter. Your focus on this measure or that measure — and your decisions on how to deal with changes in them — provides good fodder for a discussion with trained medical practitioners. Martin

@predictable

Clark (@clark711), I looked into the web site you suggested. It provides no explanation of its status in its discipline — pulmonology, which focuses primarily on lungs and the diseases that threaten them. I was also struck by the site’s obvious sales pitches, perhaps designed to attract patients, so I looked into ownership of the web site and found it to be the product of a relatively new pulmonology practice near a new hospital located a few miles from Dulles International Airport in northern Virginia (NOVA). As with most advertising, I find it no more trustworthy than political rhetoric, which also shows up on this web site by disputing scientific information about the role of carbon dioxide in global warming.

Given Nova Pulmonology’s written materials and pointed political views, I will be looking toward recognized medical research groups (like the National Institutes of Health) for information about the benefits and disadvantages of carbon dioxide in human physiology.
Martin

Jump to this post

Martin,
I definitely misspoke. My Diastolic target is about 75 or so. I was talking about one, but quoted the other.

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