Masks: How do you encourage people that they help?

Posted by tjdog @tjdog, Jun 23 1:51pm

I live in a retirement community. Many of my neighbors do not believe masks help stop the transmission of COVID-19. They use the Nextdoor app to post their feelings and “facts”. I usually try to convince them otherwise, but it seems to be fruitless. Today someone posted a picture of a warning on the box of disposable surgical masks (attached) to prove their point that masks, other than N95, don’t work. Can you give me some information that will help explain this warning and why these type of masks help. Thanks.

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@zeiracorp

"This pandamic seems to bring out the worst in some people."
That's sure true! We haven't seen all of it yet unfortunately. There are resurgences in places and places going back into stay-at-home. People are going to be even more testy if things get rolled-back.

Look at the bright side- what if this had been ebola or something similar?

This story (see the dates – it's been ongoing) is of interest: (comes from CBC)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-escorted-from-infectious-disease-lab-amid-rcmp-investigation-1.5211567
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ebola-henipah-china-1.5232674
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/canadian-scientist-sent-deadly-viruses-to-wuhan-lab-months-before-rcmp-asked-to-investigate-1.5609582
I'm not suggesting anything conspiratorial. Those articles are mainstream news and food for thought. Not trying to scare anyone. Some of the details in that are scary though.

I consider the current pandemic countermeasures as something we should also observe to see how people react to being told to take those measures. What I see is not encouraging. If this bug was a worse bug (and I'm not diminishing COVID-19's risks) we would be in very serious trouble.

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@mayofeb2020 I'm wondering what is going to happen when just the flu virus later in year is going to affect people ? Will this get worse?

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@lioness

@zeiarcropZ I remember the drives on the Pa.turnpike crazy drivers for sure So many didn't follow the speed limits . Of course they aren't any better out here .

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They are the ones who own the left lane. If you get in it, you are on their property and they will teach you a lesson (by attaching themselves to the rear of your vehicle, weaving, flashing their lights, blowing their horns, etc.). 🙂
Privatization at work? 🙂 🙂

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@rosemarya

When I was at Mayo in Rochester a few weeks ago, I heard the same thing about the 80% – 90% drop in staff COVID19 cases when masks were required. The staff who are in direct contact with patients are also wearing clear protective eyewear, even over their own eyeglasses as an added layer of protection.

On a side note – I had to make an in-person bank transaction on Friday. The bank door was locked, and so I was met by a masked bank employee -in this instance, it was a small branch office so it was the office manager – who unlocked the door, and had me give my name and phone number when I entered. I was the only customer in the lobby, and I learned that it was for contact tracing if needed. After I completed my business, I thanked her for the added protection. I could not see her face that was hidden behind the mask, but her reaction indicated to me that she had never been thanked before!

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Rosemary, I guess we'll know things are bad when we work in a bank, two guys come in wearing masks and we're relieved to find out they're only there to rob the place. 🙂

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Hi @tjdog, I wanted to check back in with you. Are things changing in your retirement community? Have some people reconsidered the wearing of masks when staying 6 feet apart isn't possible?

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@tjdog Hi I see a lot of great advice from others so I will just add a few things I think about. I'm a Heart Transplant Recipient and have been wearing a mask for pretty much 2.5 years while out in public. It was a requirement by my transplant team to help protect me from not just the Flu but multiple of other viruses and bacteria. I have been doing it even after the original time frame of during flu season mainly because I got used to it. Well this past year I found out that some close friends I have at Church got pretty ill in the early January time frame and got over it. Covid as you remember was not even being talked about then. Well it was in April when my Pastor was due to have a medical procedure and found out then that he had Covid antibodies. Well I'm pretty happy that I was very diligent in wearing my mask at church and I was the only one but my friends understood and would always let me know if they were feeling under the weather. So based on that information I was in contact with the virus on a weekly bases and didn't even know it. I did not catch it. so Im not saying its proof but maybe it helped.

So at least for me maybe I dodged a bullet. Since based on my history I probably would have been one of those that did not survive..I also do the other recommendations that they now talk about on a regular bases like hand washing, avoiding others who are sneezing and coughing(6 ft distance) etc.

I hope that helps
Have a Blessed Day
Dana

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@robbie1956

Yes…good point.. glasses need wiping, washing…I wear them…but I have to pocket them when I put the mask on…I tend to fog up the lenses..but glad you mentioned it.

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To avoid fogging of the glasses get a good and tight fit of the mask across the nose. You can put the glasses on so the top edge of the mask cover the bottom. The tight fit is what works.

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@sueinmn

My daughter, an ER nurse in Minneapolis, was here yesterday for an outdoor visit. She has been off work for 3 months due to her personal health risks, but is finally returning to a non-contact job tomorrow. However, she is closely involved with her union, so has been in daily contact with coworkers and management throughout her physical absence.

Now to get to the point – since the ENTIRE staff in the buildings, from cleaners to CEO, have been required to mask AT ALL TIMES, worker to worker and/or environmental transmission of Covid-19 has dropped by about 80 – 90%. These are not all brand new every shift N95 masks – those are for patient-facing staff – but rather surgical or cloth masks or N95 masks repeatedly sanitized and reused. Early in pandemic days, about an equal number of workers who never had patient contact were getting Covid as those who had regular contact – up to 100 people at a time were in quarantine. Right now, around 40-50 patient-facing personnel are out, but only 3 who never have patient contact. This is despite the fact that the still has many virus patients – and their Covid ICU continues to be above 50% capacity.

I encouraged her to get this information better quantified and get it to the department of health and the news outlets. So it appears that masks do help…

Sue

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@sueinmn, Sue, glad that you and your daughter got in a person-to-person visit!

Thank you for sharing the mask wearing information being implemented at her hospital. I hope she will act on your suggestion to further share this information with the dept. of health and news outlets. This type of information could prove so helpful to others if more widely distributed. Has this information helped you feel more confident about her personal safety as she returns to work?

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@mayofeb2020

@robbie1956. My daughter and I wear glasses. She reminded me to wash my glasses after I'm out, just like washing my hands.

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@mayofeb2020, Thanks for sharing your daughter's tip to wash our eye glasses after being out…I'd not been doing that.

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@zeiracorp

Very irritating, and these people whatever the agenda make me beg the question, 'just who do they think they are to get in my face or anyone's face and just out of the blue try to jam their political agenda on us?' Businesses can make basically any rule they want as long as it doesn't create a safety hazard or is illegal in and of itself. They can require masks, gloves, whatever, as a condition of entry, and if people won't comply then the next step would be to ask them to leave. When they don't leave, then the business should call the police and have them charged with criminal trespass. Most states have specific laws dealing with different kinds of trespass. In PA, simple trespass is a summary offense with a maximum jail sentence of 90 days. Usually people are just served a citation. If they violate a clearly posted no-trespassing sign, or remain after they've been told to leave it becomes defiant trespass aka criminal trespass and that is a misdemeanor with a one year sentence in the state pen (so posting no-trespassing signs becomes extra important in PA). Anyhow, that is one way to deal with it. If I went into a store an an argument like that was escalating, I'd just take anyone I brought with me and leave immediately. Not my battle, and I'm not going to end up getting punched, kicked, hit with thrown objects, or just having to deal with it.
I'm not a lawyer or official and this is not legal advice. Just my 2 cents. 🙂

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@zeiracorp, Z, I agree with what you wrote and wish there could be more legal enforcement and charges and punishments applied to the offenders. Alas, many business owners are afraid to report transgressions and others have been told that there will be no aid sent nor penalties applied. Even with something is "on the books", too often there is no guarantee that infringements will be reported.

We have a local ordinance preventing fireworks within the city limits. I live in a very quiet neighborhood but already fireworks are being noted by members of our facebook group. What good is the ordinance or law if not enforced?

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@sueinmn

@zeiracorp Yes, businesses can ask people who will not comply with mask requirements to leave, and in most places it is probably a misdemeanor not to do so. But here in the Twin Cities, our police are stretched beyond the limit by other events of the day, and have made it clear they cannot respond to such calls. In other parts of the country, law enforcement has been known to openly mock and/or defy masking requirements (the political thing again, I suppose.)

Finally, business owners are fearful of violence with so many people passionate about the matter, and nerves frayed by the pandemic and current events, and will not enforce or ask their employees to do it. I just leave businesses where people are not masked – even my favorite local hardware store, where everyone except the owners are masked and practicing safe distancing.
Sue

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@sueinmn, Yes, sadly I live in one of those states where law officials, some elected officials and too many citizens mock and defy masking requirements. Good for you for leaving a business where people are unmasked! I may be overly cautious but rather that than risk exposure to this deadly virus.

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@zeiracorp

Thanks. By the way, I'm not police. I tried that gig and it was not for me (long story). Most of my life I've worked one kind or another of "security" (there is a huge diversity of job descriptions in that field from easy and boring to complex, demanding, and ridiculously dangerous; I've done all – I'll take boring, high-pay, and easy any day, 🙂 ). I did learn a lot of things in the police training (and various security training) that have been helpful, not the least of which is the defensive driving. I think everyone should take a course like that. Massively informative as to what your car and you can do to avoid crashes. Has saved my life and other's more than once using what I learned.

Speaking of idiots, I think the highway is the most dangerous place we all have to be. People drive like they are insane. There are TONS of people killed in traffic accidents. People speed by 40 or more mph at all times.
When I was right out of high school I fell asleep at the wheel from working night shift and put my car into a concrete bridge abutment. I was not going fast. If I had been, I would not be here. I had a concussion, smashed my face, knocked about half of my teeth out, shattered my jaw, and was unable to work for months. Driving is, by far, the most deadly thing we do.

Regarding the police – Just because someone has a badge and a title does not mean they deserve your trust. People think because they are innocent or have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear from the police – they are dead wrong. I'm not diminishing the service the police do, just be aware, if they are stopping you or questioning you they are NOT your friends. They are looking for a reason to arrest you and charge you with a crime. I always tell people not to answer a lot of questions if the police stop them and start grilling them, and not to consent to warrantless searches (if they search you by force after you politely refuse, you have legal recourse; note there are certain circumstances where they CAN search you against your consent and without a warrant). Do not invite them into your house. If they are questioning you, tell them you do not want to answer any questions without the benefit of an attorney. That should end any questioning right there on the spot. Be polite, obey legal commands, and your recourse if you are treated illegally is in the courts (you can also complain to their bosses- but that may or may not get you anywhere).
Everyone should listen to this lecture:

The man talks so fast it's irritating, but it's worth putting up with it for the information contained in his lecture. Paper here:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1998119
Also, you should be aware that, unfortunately, a lot of people get into police work who are very bad actors themselves. More than one might think. I've met some of them.

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@zeiracorp, Z, I am a fan of both fictional and true crime mysteries and also have a close friend who is in charge of museum security in CA. Some of her experiences are both fascinating and dangerously frightening. I'd be with you on taking the "boring, high-pay and easy" securities too! vbg

Also agree that highway driving and even local is one of the most dangerous endeavors we do each time we step into a vehicle. Not only do yahoos cut across lanes at high speed without signaling but in this state, many drivers have no clue about navigating safely during icy or inclement weather. They just drive as usual; so many accidents and deaths occur as a result.

Thanks for the link, the policing information, tips and steps we can take to preserve our safety and legal rights while also complying with legal police commands. I agree, there are bad actors in all professions and walks of life so remembering to use caution is always better than having to pay a higher price later.

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@zeiracorp

Rosemary, I guess we'll know things are bad when we work in a bank, two guys come in wearing masks and we're relieved to find out they're only there to rob the place. 🙂

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@zeiracorp, Z, thanks for the laugh about the bank robbers! I really needed that today. Hugs.

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Changing other peoples behaviors is very difficult to near impossible. Focus on getting out the vote, good health practices for yourself and be kind to yourself and others.

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@jal333

Changing other peoples behaviors is very difficult to near impossible. Focus on getting out the vote, good health practices for yourself and be kind to yourself and others.

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@jal333, What you wrote is so true about changing another's beliefs and behaviors. We can only improve our own.

I listen to but do not respond to opposing viewpoints in a futile attempt at understanding why others believe as they do. I am no more willing to change my unspoken opinions or beliefs than they are theirs.

However, as deepening divisions in this country become ever more evident and more throughout the land take to the streets becoming destructive on many fronts on a multitude of issues, I pray fiercely for a healing in this country; a landslide turnout for coming elections and for far wiser minds than mine to find peaceful, positive solutions to the increasing dangers internationally, nationally and locally that beset us so that our children and grands can live out their lives in a nation that once fought for freedom from tyranny, equality and the rights of all.

Only history can recount recount the lasting effects of our present struggles. I pray it will also report that our nation, through the actions of both our leaders and the common man also found ways to restore civility and the faith that people can agree to disagree while focused on the higher good of all. I'm counting on our youth and the guidance of their families to work successfully in future to rectify some of the toxicity and damage being done at present. It truly can be done but the question remains, will we and they be willing to do what will be required?

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@fiesty76

@mayofeb2020, Thanks for sharing your daughter's tip to wash our eye glasses after being out…I'd not been doing that.

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@fiesty76 I,ve been doing this and also wash out my eyes either just water or the eye wash you can buy . Then I put my drops in for dry eyes .

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